First design for a little knife

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

After studying several tutorials and tips and tricks from Sam website, I started engraving a few moths ago.
I understand that design is very important. Not only because you can't copy others work when you try to sell it. But also important I think is that when you make your own design you understand better the pattern.

I doubt some time whether I should draw with pencil or with my tablet on PC.
I choose for Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop because I'm also used to drawn my jewellery designs that way.
Another advantage is that you don't have to scan the design and work it out in Photoshop.
You also can draw fine lines, so they are perfect for transferring with the Cirelli solution.

So I have bought me a little cheap knife, 60mm when it is open. It has two a brass pieces 10mm X 13mm
I want to decorate it with a relief engraving.

Here is my design, all critiques are welcome.
I'm not sure if it can be done on such a small oblect, that is why my design isn't very detailed.

the little knife

using the bucket tools in PS for the background

some shading in PS in "a way" Sam did in another post on this Café
I will do the shading some more times, because I'm sure this can be done better
Probably I will do the shading with a pencil, so it is more clear to me how the shade it later

Arnaud

 

[d.soileau]

i cant wait to see when your done. thats a cute little knife.

 

[Jim Sackett]

Corel Photo Paint

Hi Arnaund,

I played around with Corel Draw and found an etch affect that brings up some shading. I could move the light sorce around to put the shadows where ever I want. I havent cut any thing with this yet. I think the next step is to enlarge the outline and trace it with pencil and draw the shade lines in. Its a picture of my oldest daughter way back when she was young.

Jim

 

[Sam]

Arnaud: I think your design is suitable for engraving. The elements lend themselves well to plenty of nice shading.

A couple of thoughts: You have large areas of black background, that to my eye, are not quite balanced (top left for instance, and also the right side).

Secondly, in the very center where much of the vertical growth takes place, the two scrolls on the left that grow from the V-shape below don't have a natural flow. If your eye follows them through the stems below, they appear wider than the area they're sprouting from. / ~Sam

 

[FANCYGUN]

Gentlemen.you are spending too much time playing with computer graphics and not enough time drawing with a pencil. The pencil is the most important tool you will ever use. get used to the feel of it in your hands and use it to play with your designs and alter them until you are happy with them. Then engrave them. The eye hand coordination you will aquire using that pencil will help you tremendously with your engraving tools.

 

[d.soileau]

Gentlemen.you are spending too much time playing with computer graphics and not enough time drawing with a pencil. The pencil is the most important tool you will ever use. get used to the feel of it in your hands and use it to play with your designs and alter them until you are happy with them. Then engrave them. The eye hand coordination you will aquire using that pencil will help you tremendously with your engraving tools.

AMEN!

also as im still having trouble with getting things to transfer cleanly enough i have better luck sketching my design right onto what im cutting. no guessing it or not im lined up right.

of corse this also means i need more practice with transfer methoids too.

 

[Sam]

Good point, Marty. As much as I love and do computer graphics, I have to say that 99.9% of my engraving is drawn directly on the piece with pencil and transfer wax.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Same here Sam
No matter how refined a design looks on paper or a computer screen...........it always looks different when you sketch it onto the metal.
I vote for Dixon or Ticonderoga #2 pencils
Marty

 

[CRW]

Does anyone know where you can buy very hard pencils? Like a 6 to 9 H. I have looked at all the art suppliers I know of and nothing closer than 4H.
Comments welcome
Carl

 

[Tim Wells]

Gentlemen.you are spending too much time playing with computer graphics and not enough time drawing with a pencil. The pencil is the most important tool you will ever use. get used to the feel of it in your hands and use it to play with your designs and alter them until you are happy with them. Then engrave them. The eye hand coordination you will aquire using that pencil will help you tremendously with your engraving tools.

Nearly word for word what Bob Swartley told me about banknote style engraving and shading. He said that when you draw a bird or whatever through to completion it will help you exponentially in understanding how it all works and how to go about shading it when you cut it. The education gained is well worth the time taken to draw it all out.

 

[Tim Wells]

Does anyone know where you can buy very hard pencils? Like a 6 to 9 H. I have looked at all the art suppliers I know of and nothing closer than 4H.
Comments welcome
Carl

I found 9H was hard to find if not impossible locally. I got on that Al Gore invention called the "Information Super Highway" and found some art supplier that had them, or you could try eBay. I got Dixon pencils and lead for my mechanical drafting pencils as well; I stocked up big time.

 

[Tira]

CRW, Check out www.dickblick.com for pencils up to and including 9H.

 

[KatherinePlumer]

Amazingly, even the local Aaron Brothers art store caries 9H pencils. Look for Prismacolor's "Turquoise" brand graphite. Blick Studio carries them open stock on line: http://www.dickblick.com/zz204/06/

Edit: Dang, Tira beat me to the punch while I was typing.

-Katherine

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Sam thank you for your comments. Soon as I've read them I thought " of course, why didn't I see it myself"
I have a arranged some things and the tone balance (black and white) looks better now.
I will spend some more time on this design before engraving it.
There is still a curl in the middle that is not smooth enough, under the V that you mentioned.
Now that I'm looking at this design, I also have some ideas on the shading. So I will change some lines that will accentuate the perspective in function of the shading.


And of course there is nothing wrong with a pencil, but I'm not ready yet to draw some lines on this knife that has only a space for engraving 10mm x 13mm, altough I have a H9 pencil.

I know that once I'm used to make engraving designs, I will only need some lines and do the other lines directly with the graver. But I'm not that far yet.

And whether you cook on gas or wood, it is the result that count. I'm a good cook too, but I don't light my cooking fire with fire stones, I think a lighter is more accurate.
Of course, the computer is not that old, so you engravers who started years ago didn't have a choice.
There are photographers witch have a problem with digital cameras as if it is easier to take a nice photo. You still need some skills to see.

I have engraved almost all my old spoons with "Ons lepeltje" (our spoon) just for practising. But I use always the PC to print on a transparent first.
I know there will be a day that I can engrave a text directly without using the PC or a pencil.
I engrave almost everything that is in the house, my zippo has only the sides to be engraved.
That is why I still don't have a practice plate.

This little knife however is a challenge to make my own design and practising my engraving skills.

 

[Dave London]

Most art stores have drafting leads in #9 or as Tim &Tira suggest

 

[FANCYGUN]

Arnaud
Draw your design with the pencil quite a bit larger than full size........then you can scan it into the computer and reduce it to size for transfering to the knife.
Thats what i do for something too small and it gives me the opportunity to "play" with my design. For me drawing is theraputic and fun.engraving the design is work.
Marty

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Marty, you are probably right, I will give it a try.
To be continued

arnaud

 

[FANCYGUN]

Arnaud
I try to work my enlarged drawing design 2-3X larger. You get too large and you end up losing a sense of scale which can cause problems. I use my old faithful #2 pencil for most everything. You can use the very hard 9H for drawing through the grease and talc layout compound as it is very hard and will stay sharp but I dont care for it on paper. Just what I am used to.

 

[Ron Smith]

For those of you that engrave on flatware and plated items, you don't want to use a hard lead pencil. It will scratch delicate platings or lacquered items, and you will have to polish them off which will remove the plating. Even work hardened fingers (calouses or dirty) will scratch sterling silverplate. I don't know if this applies to anyone on this forum, but it is good to know if you intend to engrave everything, mostly with inscriptions etc. Non plated or lacquered items items, no problemo.

Ron S

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

@ FANCYGUN

I've been busy using my pencil, I draw with a H6 and draw the background removing with a HB1

I've learned as you said that the proportions are kept when you draw max at X2

This is of course a bit smaller, 10mmx 13mm, but I' draw this this time in real size.
And it was fun.
Sure x2 would have been more comfortable, but I used a magnification wile dawning of X3.

And indeed, this way I can see the result at the same moment how it would be look like

I also learned that an engraving should be seen on real size when it is finished.
Only engravers see it with a magnification.

So although these drawings looks a little bit vague, I understand now that they look more like the final result if you see them real size.


And I agree, designing with a paper and pencil is much faster


arnaud