peteb
Elite Cafe Member
Niobium inlay on Argentium sterling. After Ko Chung-hsuan, XVII century, Chinese, about 1633
First bracelet attempt prior to bending
- Thread starter peteb
- Start date
hand e dave
New Member
Nice looking bracelet. I hope you are able to shape it with the inlay still holding where it's supposed to. It will be nice to see a finished picture or two after all the steps are complete.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I don't think I would try bending anything inlaid, unless the inlay is soldered in place... and that can't be done with those two particular metals...
The niobium is not gonna stretch the same.
So....... maybe think of some other purpose for the whole piece or just cut out the oval that contains the inlay and use it alone.
Maybe the top or side of a box, an album cover or something else large and flat?
Brian
The niobium is not gonna stretch the same.
So....... maybe think of some other purpose for the whole piece or just cut out the oval that contains the inlay and use it alone.
Maybe the top or side of a box, an album cover or something else large and flat?
Brian
Last edited:
peteb
Elite Cafe Member
Insert is held in place in cavity by a "bezel" and the "bezel" is soldered.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Still gonna be problem... Most items are "set" into finished product.
If it needs to be bent, it's bent first.
When you bend this, the bezel will pull away from the niobium...
Good luck.
Brian
Try this: Roll out a sheet of modeling clay maybe a quarter inch thick. Carve or form your oval bezel into it. Make a cardboard or plastic sheet "inlay" to fit.
Push the clay "bezel" over the "inlay" like you would a real one.
Now bend the whole thing and tell us what happens...
If it needs to be bent, it's bent first.
When you bend this, the bezel will pull away from the niobium...
Good luck.
Brian
Try this: Roll out a sheet of modeling clay maybe a quarter inch thick. Carve or form your oval bezel into it. Make a cardboard or plastic sheet "inlay" to fit.
Push the clay "bezel" over the "inlay" like you would a real one.
Now bend the whole thing and tell us what happens...
Last edited:
thin ice in my mind. looks very nice, though.
Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Brian, could you please explain to those of us that don't understand these things why this combination won't work? Is it because the two metals bend/stretch at different rates? If soldering wouldn't work would puk or laser welding do the job instead? Just a thought as its a lovely piece of work and would look stunning as a bracelet.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Hi Marcus,
Simplest way I can think of is this....
Cut out a strip of cardboard say 2" (50mm) wide x 8" (200mm) long.
Cut a cardboard oval more or less in proportion to what is shown in the post.
Lay the oval on the center and scribe it (or use a very fine pen or pencil) to mark where it would go. BE EXACT! As close as you can possibly get.
Now take a piece of clear tape and tape the oval to the "bracelet" blank - LENGTHWISE.
One narrow strip. Right down the center.
Pick it up off the table and bend it.
Either your tape will pull undone or the "bracelet" will buckle right under the oval...
And that is happening with identical materials!
Guess what happens with two unlike metals?
Another thing you can do is this: Forget taping the oval down.
Take the cardboard "bracelet" you have already marked and roll it up into a tube. Tape the ends where they overlap.
Now take your oval, put it on top and bend it to fit - try to get it to match the original scribe lines perfectly.
You can't do it. Not exactly. There will be space at one end. Not much, mind you - but enough to wreck a job like this.
When you bent the "bracelet" you lengthened the surface area and shrunk the interior surface area.
That, boy & girls - changed where those scribe lines are on the outside surface... and in the real world with real metal - it'll kinda ruin the rest of your day...
Does any of that make more sense?
As to the other questions: You cannot solder niobium to silver - at least not on this planet... yet.
If you could weld it (and I am not sure you could, not owning a PUK or a laser at the moment) the strain put on the weld by bending the two flat pieces into a curve would either fracture the perimeter weld immediately or you could look forward to fractures down the road.
Brian
Simplest way I can think of is this....
Cut out a strip of cardboard say 2" (50mm) wide x 8" (200mm) long.
Cut a cardboard oval more or less in proportion to what is shown in the post.
Lay the oval on the center and scribe it (or use a very fine pen or pencil) to mark where it would go. BE EXACT! As close as you can possibly get.
Now take a piece of clear tape and tape the oval to the "bracelet" blank - LENGTHWISE.
One narrow strip. Right down the center.
Pick it up off the table and bend it.
Either your tape will pull undone or the "bracelet" will buckle right under the oval...
And that is happening with identical materials!
Guess what happens with two unlike metals?
Another thing you can do is this: Forget taping the oval down.
Take the cardboard "bracelet" you have already marked and roll it up into a tube. Tape the ends where they overlap.
Now take your oval, put it on top and bend it to fit - try to get it to match the original scribe lines perfectly.
You can't do it. Not exactly. There will be space at one end. Not much, mind you - but enough to wreck a job like this.
When you bent the "bracelet" you lengthened the surface area and shrunk the interior surface area.
That, boy & girls - changed where those scribe lines are on the outside surface... and in the real world with real metal - it'll kinda ruin the rest of your day...
Does any of that make more sense?
As to the other questions: You cannot solder niobium to silver - at least not on this planet... yet.
If you could weld it (and I am not sure you could, not owning a PUK or a laser at the moment) the strain put on the weld by bending the two flat pieces into a curve would either fracture the perimeter weld immediately or you could look forward to fractures down the road.
Brian
Last edited:
Haraga.com
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Don't rain on the parade Brian. I say go ahead and bend it!
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Yeah, Leonard...
I forget. Victor would'na said a word.
He'd just grin if he saw us tryin' to do it, and walk off...
I forget. Victor would'na said a word.
He'd just grin if he saw us tryin' to do it, and walk off...
Last edited:
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Another simple example, leastwise I think it's simple?
Take two 6" or 8" strips of metal, say copper for example.
Rivet them together at the ends.
Try bending that into a bracelet.
Or find the center and rivet them together with two rivets - each one an inch from the center mark.
Try bending that into a bracelet.
I guess you could do the same exercise with two strips of cardboard and some staples...
Or if you are really, really lazy - put a thick magazine on the table in front of you. TV Guide comes to mind. I don't own a TV.
Observe it. While your eyes are focused on the open edge of the magazine - not on the TV.
Roll it up.
Does that edge still have the same 90 degree corners it had while lying flat on the table?
If it does, you better make an appointment with your opthamologist and not play with sharp objects until you see him/her.
Brian
Take two 6" or 8" strips of metal, say copper for example.
Rivet them together at the ends.
Try bending that into a bracelet.
Or find the center and rivet them together with two rivets - each one an inch from the center mark.
Try bending that into a bracelet.
I guess you could do the same exercise with two strips of cardboard and some staples...
Or if you are really, really lazy - put a thick magazine on the table in front of you. TV Guide comes to mind. I don't own a TV.
Observe it. While your eyes are focused on the open edge of the magazine - not on the TV.
Roll it up.
Does that edge still have the same 90 degree corners it had while lying flat on the table?
If it does, you better make an appointment with your opthamologist and not play with sharp objects until you see him/her.
Brian
Last edited:
DWdame
Member
I can't tell how wide the design is, but can you just cut around the oval, leaving two round bits on either side - drill holes in them, and then rivet it to an already bent bracelet blank?
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
You will still have two pieces of sheet - if I get your meaning?
One bezeled inside the other. With tabs on either end.
When you bend them, bad things will happen...
B.
When are you gonna give us a handle other'n your forum screen name? Shall we call you "R"? Janice? or Jan? Or?
One bezeled inside the other. With tabs on either end.
When you bend them, bad things will happen...
B.
When are you gonna give us a handle other'n your forum screen name? Shall we call you "R"? Janice? or Jan? Or?
Last edited:
DWdame
Member
I wouldn't try bending the inlay at all! Just if it's not too wide, it could maybe be riveted to the top of a cuff? Alternatively, you could maybe cut slits on either side of the inlay and then thread a leather strap through it. But again, I can't tell how wide the whole thing is.
Janice is fine!
It's pronounced 'juh-neece' not that it matters online, but still.
Janice is fine!
It's pronounced 'juh-neece' not that it matters online, but still. Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
OK Janice,
If you rivet the unit (inlay/bezel/backplate) as it is now to another curved bracelet base, and the rivets are tight/flush - it will BE curved.
Otherwise the top of the bracelet will have to compensate by being flat.
Make a cardboard model and staple the oval to it and see... don't forget the oval is two pieces thick and flat.
I'm gonna guess that the bracelet dimensions are around 6.5 inches by say, 2 inches? That would make the oval maybe 1.5" x 2.5"? Those are guesses!
Brian
If you rivet the unit (inlay/bezel/backplate) as it is now to another curved bracelet base, and the rivets are tight/flush - it will BE curved.
Otherwise the top of the bracelet will have to compensate by being flat.
Make a cardboard model and staple the oval to it and see... don't forget the oval is two pieces thick and flat.
I'm gonna guess that the bracelet dimensions are around 6.5 inches by say, 2 inches? That would make the oval maybe 1.5" x 2.5"? Those are guesses!
Brian
Last edited:
silverchip
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Nice piece of work!!!It would make a great pendant!!!
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
It is a nice piece of work... if it doesn't get bent.
I'm trying to save it!
B.
I'm trying to save it!
B.
Haraga.com
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
You are right Brian. He would have have had a good chuckle.
peteb
Elite Cafe Member
Thank you all for your concerns. I think it will work because the insert is not restrained within the bezel and its surface is actually a few thousands below the face of the silver, thus it is independent and should bend well. When working with the insert, it was bent into a cupped bezel form over a die, the legs sticking down about .010. It bends well, more than 90 degrees. After engraving etc. a second .010 silver bezel formed on top of the first to fit in the prepared oval cavity. The niobium legs were removed before soldering to give the silver maximum solder area with in the cavity. The result after soldering is a bracelet that appears as if two silver pieces were joined. You can polish the entire piece then mark out to cut thru the silver down to the niobum which is where I stand now.
Haraga.com
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Peteb please show us pictures when it is done.
Sponsors
