Ever try automotive primer for drawing on metal?

[mitch]

I was wondering if anybody has experimented with flat grey automotive primer, instead of the usual Chinese white, etc.? The stuff is specially made to adhere well to bare metal, has a nice matte finish, etc. Recommendations on brands, types?

 

[Brian Marshall]

Used to use a flat white primer with a pencil - and you could erase it.

Eventually quit because of the solvents needed to get it off. At that time there was no place to do it outdoors.

Now there is.

May start using it again for some jobs?


Brian

 

[fegarex]

I've used gray primer and flat white and it works OK. The base can't be super polished however. A 600 finish will make the paint bite.
Light coat and let it dry 24 hours and you can draw/erase. I found the cheaper paints better as they were less pigment and didn't build as fast so they wouldn't chip as easily. My favorite was Kmart flat white but the store went out of here years ago so I don't know if it is the same formula.

 

[Red Green]

If I remember correctly back in the '60s and '70s auto painters used 'non-sanding sealer' and a heavier version 'etching primer' it was used before any primer was applied. It stuck well to polished or finely sanded metal even zinc as it was purported to 'bite into the metal' and stick, I can say from experience it worked quite well. The non-sanding sealer came in clear and primer gray and I think white, it was applied in a single light coat, primer was then applied directly to it as it was 'non-sanding', alcohol should cut it as 'thinner' was mostly just alcohol with a little naphtha back then. It dried hard and would hold a pencil mark well I'm sure, I think it would be the most suitable for the purpose and it may still be available.

Bob

 

[JJ Roberts]

drawing on metal

Mutton & Tallow works for me. J.J.

 

[silverchip]

A buck a can flat white spray paint works great and come off with acetone.

 

[Red Green]

You guys aren't seriously advocating not spending a few hundred dollars and a few days figuring out how to do something simple and cheap are you? What are forums for, why even bother if you don't take the protocol to its potential? We've spent so little time and effort on the problem, I feel like I haven't put forth a real effort. Perhaps if we make a rule that it must contain pine tar and bees wax?

Bob

 

[mitch]

a heavier version 'etching primer' it was used before any primer was applied. It stuck well to polished or finely sanded metal even zinc as it was purported to 'bite into the metal' and stick, I can say from experience it worked quite well.

i saw a can of 'etching primer' in an automotive supply today and that got me to thinking. i wondered if the etching properties were too aggressive for a near-mirror polished knife bolster, etc. and thought i'd ask if anybody had taken the various options out for a test drive. it would need three important qualities: adhere like death to well-polished metal; not flake when subjected to a pencil (or eraser), scribe, or graver; and be easily removable without a pressure washer AND leave the surface unscathed (no visible etching). ok, maybe that's four...

btw- is there a matte finish version of dykem or similar?

 

[Red Green]

I never thought to cut into it back then, seems like it would sand off without lifting the edge. It goes on very thin it was used to water seal and insure the adhesion of the filling primer. It sticks great you can bend the metal and it holds on very flexible, the etching primer is a different animal it has fillers in it and may not hold as well, some fillers will powder out but most will flake when the edges are undermined but gravers are very sharp. For the non-sanding sealer I would imagine you would need to find a automotive body repair supply.

Bob

 

[mitch]

thanks, Bob. one thing i noticed perusing the selection at Advance Auto was that some primers are made to fill minor scratches and it seemed those would build too thick a coat for my/our purposes. we need something that covers with the barest wisp- basically just dulls the surface texture (or lack thereof, on a knife bolster) while adding as little thickness as possible.

i may try one of those etching primers. they look promising, as long as they can be a) removed easily; and b) don't leave the metal looking sandblasted afterwards. i'll let y'all know how it goes...

 

[DKanger]

Mitch,
The main fill component in auto primer is talc. It can be put on wet or dry. With just a light dusting, you should get what you want and then rub it off with lacquer thinner. You don't need a full coat. Stay away from the etching stuff. I painted my John Deere outside with it. The wind blew the overspray onto my truck window and it ate into the glass. Now my wipers smear when it rains.

 

[TyG]

Etch Primer is used to French Grey Bits and Spurs, the main component is Phosphoric Acid which oxidises the surface film of highly polished carbon steel leaving a slightly frosted grey finish. If you leave it in too long it will give a scaled appearance similar to a heavy galvanised iron. I think it would look very nice engraved through the etched metal highlighting the brighter cuts.

 

[silverchip]

So Ty, what happens if you leave it on overnite?

 

[Kevin Scott]

Have not tried any spray paint yet. Been using a Sharpie white marker, thin coat, heat up a bit with heat gun, let cool, then draw with a HB pencil. The Sharpie holds up far better than chinese white. The problem I have with it now is when I start engraving from left to right, the far right side pencil lines get smudged or worn, by the time I get to them, even when the paint has held up pretty well.

The same problem might result even if you found the perfect spray paint.

Have tried covering the right side with a plastic bag, and tried clingy food wrap. Results are better, but it is awkward.

If I go to a harder pencil that smudges less, the lines are too light. Can't see them very well, even before they get worn.


I only hand push, so this is a big problem for me, since with hand pushing, your fingers are in contact with the work alot more, for bracing etc, than with power assist.

Today I tried applying a thin coat of "Mop and Glo" to the work after penciling. Used a foam pad to apply. Then warmed up with the heat gun to dry. I think this may be the ultimate answer for me. The pencil lines and paint are now very durable. Quick and easy to apply. Cheap cost. The mop and Glo gave the work a slight gloss, but should not be a problem.

Have tried photo protective or matte finish spray. Did not seem to help much. Plus the spray is hard to control on a small surface. And just don't like spraying paint etc around in the shop.

Mop and Glo is a acrylic water based floor finish, to shine and protect no wax and other kitchen type floors. Have not tried yet, but I expect it will come off easily with the denatured alcohol that I normally use to remove the Sharpie paint. Label says can remove with a ammonia based product.

If this works out for me, I think it will greatly improve my engraving. But I still won't be a very good engraver. Got other things to work on. But it should eliminate some mistakes.

 

[Marrinan]

McKenzie was a strong advocate of hammer work because of the smugging issue. I would suggest scribing lightly with a rounded carbide scribe. Fred

 

[JJ Roberts]

Fred's right scribing in with a scribe is a good idea, why lose an image after all that time your spent drawing your design.Did'nt Sam talk about a scribe he made out of a thin brass rod it leaves a light line an the metal,I made one for myself and work fine. J.J.

 

[Kevin Scott]

Did some cutting with the Mop and Glo over the pencil and paint. It did not have any effect on the graver controlwise or any other way. Did not chip, peel etc. Other than giving the work a slight gloss, which was not a problem, it was no different than without it. Except the pencil lines and paint held up perfectly. You can rub all you want, and the pencil lines are not affected.

When finished, cleaned the paint off with denatured alcohol as usual. Cleaned up easy, no different than without Mop and Glo.

After applying the Mop and Glo, you can not apply pencil lines. But did try a ballpoint pen, and could draw with that, and the ink held pretty well. And the pen did not go through to the metal and leave marks.

I am very happy with this, and will use the Mop and Glo on all work. No downsides except it takes about a minute extra time. But well worth it for me.

I have done a little with scribing but don't really like it. It is an extra step that takes time, and gives you another opportunity to make mistakes. And the scribe marks can be hard to see when you go to cut.

 

[dlilazteca]

Did some cutting with the Mop and Glo over the pencil and paint. It did not have any effect on the graver controlwise or any other way. Did not chip, peel etc. Other than giving the work a slight gloss, which was not a problem, it was no different than without it. Except the pencil lines and paint held up perfectly. You can rub all you want, and the pencil lines are not affected.

When finished, cleaned the paint off with denatured alcohol as usual. Cleaned up easy, no different than without Mop and Glo.

After applying the Mop and Glo, you can not apply pencil lines. But did try a ballpoint pen, and could draw with that, and the ink held pretty well. And the pen did not go through to the metal and leave marks.

I am very happy with this, and will use the Mop and Glo on all work. No downsides except it takes about a minute extra time. But well worth it for me.

I have done a little with scribing but don't really like it. It is an extra step that takes time, and gives you another opportunity to make mistakes. And the scribe marks can be hard to see when you go to cut.

Very interesting thanks!

Carlos De La O III

 

[Kevin Scott]

Mop and Glo update:

Still using it on every engraving work. Won't do any engraving work without it. Have not come across any downsides to it, other than the two minutes it takes to apply, warm up and dry. You can not rub off or smudge the pencil or paint even if you rubbed a spot with your finger for a minute, trying to get it off.

I apply by putting a drop of mop and glo on a foam pad, dabbing it, not wiping, then use a dry section of the foam pad, again dabbing, not wiping, to get a light, even coat. Then warm up a bit with the heat gun. Let cool for a couple minutes.

Have been using a "Sharpie" brand white marker. It is a gloss oil based paint. Wish it was a flat paint, since the pencil lines would be easier to see since the pencil will go on better on a flat versus gloss paint.

Lately have been using "Elmer's Painters" marker. Label says "White Pearlescent". I apply it the same way as the Sharpie, with a foam pad, dabbing to get a light even coat. Seems the Elmer's is better because the the pencil lines are noticeably easier to see. Don't know why. Cleans up easily with alcohol the same as the Sharpie.

Bought at a Art - Crafts store, "Michaels", a chain store.

 

[dlilazteca]

You should make a you tube video!

Carlos De La O III