jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Who knows how to engrave a die for a coin die or a similar type of die?
engraving a coin die?
- Thread starter jerrywh
- Start date
atexascowboy2011
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2012
- Messages
- 997
If Charlie Sampson is still around down in California he can steer you in the right direction.
Brain or John B. might possibly have his contact info.
He is the World's best at coining ! And silversmithing, and engraving.
Don't believe it ?
Just wait AND he'll tell you.
Brain or John B. might possibly have his contact info.
He is the World's best at coining ! And silversmithing, and engraving.
Don't believe it ?
Just wait AND he'll tell you.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Can't help you... lost track of him many years ago...
There's another gal on here down around LA who used to do coining and dies, but her name escapes me at the moment.
Brian
There's another gal on here down around LA who used to do coining and dies, but her name escapes me at the moment.
Brian
bartelfitzneel
Member
What kind of coin? I do medieval style coins. I think Joe Paonessa rattles around on this website. He is better than I am. He goes by gtsport on here:
http://www.engraverscafe.com/member.php?545-gtsport
I know some fellow medievalist in the north west as well.
http://www.engraverscafe.com/member.php?545-gtsport
I know some fellow medievalist in the north west as well.
Dave London
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
yep Joe or Ron Landis AKA scratchmo
gtsport
Elite Cafe Member
Hi, I'm Joe and I know how.
Donny
Elite Cafe Member
Bryan Bridges out here in the Phoenix area was a die maker.... AirAmp here on this site might have his contact info..I lost contact with him after my initial lessons with him. Super nice person.
Donny
Donny
jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Actually I want to make a stamp for a makers mark on gun barrels. The process is probably the same as making a coin die but the stamp is much simpler.
gtsport. Can you elaborate on the process.
gtsport. Can you elaborate on the process.
Martin Strolz
Elite Cafe Member
Hand engraved stamps:
First the piece of tool steel must be cut, machined etc. to the desired shape and measurement. The upper part of the sides get a conical shape. The remaining frontal area must be a little wider than the actual design. This is because there must be some metal left for the side flanks of your design. Dont forget that you must work with the mirrored logo or text! The front face of your steel piece must be absolutely flat and finely finished. Draw your design on it and cut with a V-section graver. You easily can prepare an onglette this way. Just give the graver three flat grinds which form a tip. Clear that such a graver cannot be used for normal engraving. This graver does not have a heel and can only be used to push down and scrape the side walls. In order to make it easier you could first cut away the steel in the center of the widest areas with a round graver. It is very important never to lower the handle as your graver would ruin your work with the sharp lower edge!! Try to obtain smooth sides on your stamp right from the start. Cut away small chips only and use a scraping motion with one side of your graver. Use a 10 power hand held lens for this as you want to look from the sides and see your tool work. The hardest thing is to cut nice corners, especially where more than two lines meet... The end result is a stamp that has smooth cut flanks and a very narrow and even edge at the top. You can check the design with an ink-pad and a piece of cardboard. If finished harden your stamp.
See samples here (The ones with a flat ground are CNC-engraved. Hand cut stamps never have a flat background!)
http://www.punzierungsstempel.de/punzierungsstempel/index.php
http://www.gravur.de/Handschlagstempel::58.html
CNC engraved stamp:
You need a drawing or design that can be scanned and then vectorized. For this several software programs are available. You can use CorelDraw or Inkscape for example. Note that your vector design must have closed outlines. Otherwise the CAM software cannot calculate correct milling paths. Then it can be scaled to the correct size and flipped. The steel part must be prepared roughly. The piece can be shaped in a way that it can be used in a press or by hand only. The front side can be milled in the CNC to be exact flat. It should be then ground smooth and the point of origin can be set. Milling paths must be calculated in the CAM software. First the stamp will be roughed with a single flute cutter that has a small tip-off. This ensures that the tip does not break all too easy. The metal is roughed in multiple layers at a very low feed rate, but high RPM. The final cutter has almost no tip-off and therefore can cut relatively sharp corners. After the milling process you can file away excess metal and harden your stamp.
Samples here:
http://www.gravur.de/Praegestempel::21.html
http://www.felber-ag.ch/pages/stempel/stahlschlagstempel.php
http://www.gravur.de/Schweisserstempel::52.html
Maybe it is best to just draw the design and get it produced professionally.
Cheers, Martin
First the piece of tool steel must be cut, machined etc. to the desired shape and measurement. The upper part of the sides get a conical shape. The remaining frontal area must be a little wider than the actual design. This is because there must be some metal left for the side flanks of your design. Dont forget that you must work with the mirrored logo or text! The front face of your steel piece must be absolutely flat and finely finished. Draw your design on it and cut with a V-section graver. You easily can prepare an onglette this way. Just give the graver three flat grinds which form a tip. Clear that such a graver cannot be used for normal engraving. This graver does not have a heel and can only be used to push down and scrape the side walls. In order to make it easier you could first cut away the steel in the center of the widest areas with a round graver. It is very important never to lower the handle as your graver would ruin your work with the sharp lower edge!! Try to obtain smooth sides on your stamp right from the start. Cut away small chips only and use a scraping motion with one side of your graver. Use a 10 power hand held lens for this as you want to look from the sides and see your tool work. The hardest thing is to cut nice corners, especially where more than two lines meet... The end result is a stamp that has smooth cut flanks and a very narrow and even edge at the top. You can check the design with an ink-pad and a piece of cardboard. If finished harden your stamp.
See samples here (The ones with a flat ground are CNC-engraved. Hand cut stamps never have a flat background!)
http://www.punzierungsstempel.de/punzierungsstempel/index.php
http://www.gravur.de/Handschlagstempel::58.html
CNC engraved stamp:
You need a drawing or design that can be scanned and then vectorized. For this several software programs are available. You can use CorelDraw or Inkscape for example. Note that your vector design must have closed outlines. Otherwise the CAM software cannot calculate correct milling paths. Then it can be scaled to the correct size and flipped. The steel part must be prepared roughly. The piece can be shaped in a way that it can be used in a press or by hand only. The front side can be milled in the CNC to be exact flat. It should be then ground smooth and the point of origin can be set. Milling paths must be calculated in the CAM software. First the stamp will be roughed with a single flute cutter that has a small tip-off. This ensures that the tip does not break all too easy. The metal is roughed in multiple layers at a very low feed rate, but high RPM. The final cutter has almost no tip-off and therefore can cut relatively sharp corners. After the milling process you can file away excess metal and harden your stamp.
Samples here:
http://www.gravur.de/Praegestempel::21.html
http://www.felber-ag.ch/pages/stempel/stahlschlagstempel.php
http://www.gravur.de/Schweisserstempel::52.html
Maybe it is best to just draw the design and get it produced professionally.
Cheers, Martin
Last edited:
Thank you Martin! I've added your post to the Tips Archive
I've engraved a few stamps over the years. Here's a test strike (in lead) of one I engraved in 1983 which was used in a 24k gold inlay on the ricasso of this Bowie knife blade.
I've also done a couple like you describe which are used for striking a hallmark in art bronzes.
atexascowboy2011
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2012
- Messages
- 997
Jerry, I agree with Martin 100% on the design it and send it to a professional.
Yes, maybe you can cut a perfect die, harden it (while keeping it scale free), but to me the critical part is the tempering. If it is NOT tempered correctly, the die will quickly collapse during PRESSING.
Harper manufacturing makes a great stamp and I'm pretty sure Sachs Lawlor make steel stamps.
But, go ahead and give it a shot. Just keep Harpers name as a backup.
Another option would be to hand engrave your makers mark directly onto the barrel yourself.
Yes, maybe you can cut a perfect die, harden it (while keeping it scale free), but to me the critical part is the tempering. If it is NOT tempered correctly, the die will quickly collapse during PRESSING.
Harper manufacturing makes a great stamp and I'm pretty sure Sachs Lawlor make steel stamps.
But, go ahead and give it a shot. Just keep Harpers name as a backup.
Another option would be to hand engrave your makers mark directly onto the barrel yourself.
gtsport
Elite Cafe Member
Wow, after reading Martin's post, I have nothing to add other than I need to read his post a few more times. It's one thing to recognize great information and a whole 'nuther thing to absorb it.
Joe
Joe
jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thank you very much to all especially Martin and Sam. I will have to study this a while.
Donny
Elite Cafe Member
View attachment 33423
View attachment 33424
Thank you Martin! I've added your post to the Tips Archive
I've engraved a few stamps over the years. Here's a test strike (in lead) of one I engraved in 1983 which was used in a 24k gold inlay on the ricasso of this Bowie knife blade.
I've also done a couple like you describe which are used for striking a hallmark in art bronzes.
So where can I get blank oil cans like those in the picture?? Are they available on the market?
Donny
silvermon
Member
Jerry, Coining dies and stamps are quite a bit different. Coining requires much higher forces, or very much higher forces, depending on whether it is an open die or closed die set. Stamping is done at lower forces because it is moving much less metal, and moving it progressively allowing the tool to top out at the force limit. Basically, think that coining dies are female and require a lot of work, and stamps are male and much easier to get along with.
Gabe
Member
Beautiful knife. Great work on all. Truly master craftsmanship work IMO. Great post.
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