Help, please: engraver

[tskinner]

Hello, I am new here so I'm not sure of proper process.
The attached photos are a first generation Colt, shipped in 1890. The engraving is not original.
Could anyone identify who did the engraving?
I would appreciate any info with regards to what effect the engraving has on the value, as well as opinions on the current value.
Thanks
Tim

 

[Dulltool]

Are you 100% sure it's a Colt?.... I don't see the roll stamped Colt address on the barrel or name and patent dates on the frame. If these were removed why? Possible heavy pitting at some point in it's life... maybe?

It appears to me to be a more recent engrave job.

 

[Marrinan]

I agree with Dennis. It sure looks like it has been re-barreled and the cylinder replaced. The engraving is old school but I would say recent work. Roger Beliele (most likely misspelled- sorry roger) will probably be a lot of help on this one. As to value-it is worth what are willing to pay-you may never recover the investment though. There is a rifle sitting in local gun shop that I would bet cost 10,000 or mor just for the engravingby one of America's best . no interest in 3 years. Fred

 

[Beathard]

It doesn't look like there are any manufacturer or importer markings at all. Kind of looks like a 50's non-professional job. The case color looks worn off. Did the engraver remove all the markings?

 

[silverchip]

I see liner shading, Makes me think it could have been done in the late 1970's or 80's. Is that silver wire inlay? Sort a reminds me of Benno Huene???

 

[Haraga.com]

I liked Benno's accent.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

For something that was originally shipped in 1890 it is in remarkable condition. Which is not unusual if it has been restored. However if it is a restoration then it looks recent going by the photos.

Generally with restoration of something like a first generation Colt great care would be taken to retain any markings. So no visible marking is a bit of a warning bell.

The large overlays on the detonators........what metal are they? Gold?. If they are gold, then that is an awful lot of gold which goes against the grain of the quality of the engraving. The overlay with the buffalo head has a deep shadow under the eye which is very strange. Unless that is a trick of the lighting.

The engraving is not the best. It's not terrible but it isn't good either. It is either a rush job, or someone starting out with their career. Or, someone trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear by trying desperately to add value to the gun. Unfortunately, if the latter is the case they haven't succeeded.

What is it worth........probably not a lot, if anything, in the collectors market. I can't give you a figure because the value is basically what someone will pay for it. However, there are a few things that are questionable about the gun. The engraving is not from someone with any fame (e.g. an early Nimschke)

Perhaps you could tell us more........are there any marks, documentation, where you got if from, etc etc.

Having said all that, there is a bright side. If you choose to keep it then you have a nice gun that you can take a bit of pride in ownership in.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[GTJC460]

The engraving is not the best. It's not terrible but it isn't good either. It is either a rush job, or someone starting out with their career. Or, someone trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear by trying desperately to add value to the gun. Unfortunately, if the latter is the case they haven't succeeded.



Cheers
Andrew

I'm curious what makes you say its not that great. I've been studying colt engraving quite heavily recently. It's done in a style very similar to factory type work. I don't see anything glaringly bad about the piece. The overlays are a bit sketchy, but the scroll work overall is pretty good. It does lack some of the "depth" and 3 dimensionality of a Mike Dubber.

 

[GTJC460]

Id call it more "production" style work than anything else.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I'm curious what makes you say its not that great.

Hi Bert

It may be factory engraving or production style. I don't know. But you would also have to qualify exactly what production engraving is. To the collector, these things are really important and affect the price.

Just keep in mind that when it comes to valuations and monetary worth things change. It is never a question of likeing it or not as it always comes down to the cold hard facts known about the gun. Even then it's not an exact science because there are so many variables that will affect the collectors market. Even then it can go through trends and valuations will differ considerably. It always pays to get a cross section of opinions.

Things like who the previous owner was e.g. a king, queen, president, mass murderer, etc. Who the engraver was e.g. Joe Blow or L.D Nimschke. Obviously these things make a difference. Is the gun 100% original or has it been tampered with. Markings are critical in most cases and depending on the collector, serial numbers can be important.…………..and on and on it goes. From a photo you can only pick up so much.

To clarify what I was saying about the engraving. When you price or value something there are various degrees of engraving and all personal likes and dislikes go out the window. Things like background removal and treatment, amount of shading, size of scroll, style of scroll etc etc etc……….It's not a bad job and if the question was "do you like the gun or engraving" then the answers would be quite different. It's basically no different than pricing an engraving job for a customer where things like background removal and amount of shading affect the overall price. When valuing you just reverse the process.


One thing I have learnt over the years when it comes to this sort of thing. The gun and collectors market is filled with some of the biggest rogues you will ever find. Some will happily hand you, with white gloves on, the latest Uberti and tell you that it was owned by King Farouk in 500 BC. Or they will knowingly mix and match parts and tell you it's 100% original. Or whack some engraving on it in an attempt to change the grade of gun and pass it off as being high grade or disguise a few things.

Now I am not accusing everyone of that as the vast majority of collectors are honest people but it is an area that attracts more than its fair share of charlatans. A good rule of thumb is…...if it looks wrong, then it probably is.

This gun could be the real deal for all I know. But there are a few things that set off alarm bells and to get a proper valuation you would need to see the gun in person.

Or it's possible that the gun is just a bit of a hack that someone restored and replaced parts on, got engraved and was a very happy owner. In which case the whole thing is great.

Cheers
Andrew