Engraved pocket watch case question

[Steve Adams]

I was recently contacted about old pocket watches. The question is two part. How did the locomotive designs get on cases, and how difficult would it be to hand engrave locomotive designs on a blank watch case?
I know that many of the 3D designs were done by die striking, but some custom ones must have been engraved. Of the ones hand engraved, were most shallow engraving with shading in the design for 3D effect, full 3D or mostly a 2D line look? Has anyone engraved pocket watch cases, and are there any recomendations or things to be careful about?
Steve Adams

 

[Sam]

Steve: Many old watch cases are gold filled, which is better than plating as it's a base metal (usually brass) sandwiched between thin gold sheets. If they're not worn too much already, they're suitable for line engraving, but I don't think I'd risk deep carving unless the case is solid. Even then, they're much thinner than a hobo nickel, so you're limited to an extent. I'm far from being an expert on pocket watch cases, but I've repaired a few movements and examined the cases they were in, and if it were me doing the ones I've had on my bench, it would be line engraving only, or a bit of not-too-deep relief. I'd love to see you work your magic on a nice, thick case! / ~Sam

 

[jimzim75]

Hi Steve,
The locomotive was put on because in the ninetieth century they were the FedEx of today.
Certain spots in the west where they picked up deliveries were little more that post
sticking in the ground. So you wouldn't be standing there all day, you bought a rail road watch.
A finely made time piece that would put you at the right place at the right time.

The thickness of the watch case is of major concern. Whether it's thick enough to be
self supporting. If not fill it with chaser cement. It comes in yellowish stick from jewellers
supplies. When engraving use a light touch. Don't dig a hole to China, it can be
hard to match the color of old gold sometimes.

Jim

 

[Steve Adams]

Sam and Jim,
Thank you for the quick response, I greatly appreciate it. I think before even considering the project I'll see if more information comes in, your replies have already taught me several things. Now for what may be a silly question. How do I tell if the metal is solid, filled or plated, will it say on the watch? It sounds like I would be over my head if it is filled or plated with hands as heavy as mine. You are right Sam, I could sure sink my teeth into a non filled or plated case. Filling in the back is good advise Jim, thanks.

 

[Sam]

Steve: Gold filled are often marked "gold filled" or "14k GF" or maybe "guaranteed 10 (or 20) years". A 20-year case will have thicker gold than a 10-year case. It's still plenty thick for line engraving, but you still have limits.

Thermo-Loc is also great for filling thin items before engraving. / ~S

 

[jimzim75]

Hi,
In time the lines you cut in a gold filled watch case will dull down and become almost a mat
finish. You have to be really careful and make no slips. Burnishing, or using a rubber wheel
are out. So start in the morning and have a real good day.
Jim

 

[Tim Wells]

Dito what Sam said. I see he has been doing homework

If it's rolled gold plate, RGP don't even fool with it as its gold layer is even thinner than gold filled. A little hint is that you'll never see a case that says guaranteed for X years in rolled gold plate; only gold filled cases had that.

Also as a side note, true railroad approved watches didn't have a lid or hunter case, they were open face, lever set and usually 16 size.

Look over the edges really well as they will show brassing first, where the gold is worn through. If you take the lid off a hunter case watch to engrave it, the hinge pin is always tapered and comes out in only one direction. Carefully stick a small graver in the side of the end that is sticking out just barely and pop that pin loose by trying to slide it out.

 

[monk]

pocketwatches

i've only engraved old silver ones. these things were very heavy. i only did limited monogram work on them. they seemed to be solid silver, not plated.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Steve I would suggest you carve the relief, somewhat finished. Then take the cover off fairly simply to do, have the relief soldered onto the cover. then fine detail added and a gold plating added if not solid gold. I would solder with gold or silver solder not soft solder if the case is gold or filled. Just my thoughts

 

[beegee]

I have three old watches, a Gruen Verithin, another name brand I can't recall and an imported watch with an engraved face. The cases are really thin. I've considered engraving them, but it won't be anytime soon.


A one time in our history, each railroad had its own time system. Towns would set their clocks by the arrival of trains. Once interstate railroad travel became a reality, they realized the need for for standard times, thus the time zones were created. I guess the watches with engraved and embossed trains were because of that relationship.

 

[beegee]

Here's a couple of poorly-taken pictures of my engraved watch:

It's 1OK gold-filled, Wadsworth, and a date of 01-10 on the inside cover. It was repaired and adjusted in 1965 and I had it repaired and adjusted in 2001. The movement is engraved "Watch Specialties, Co." and the case edges, front and back, are engraved around the border. The movement chassis is also hand-engraved with a vine and flower pattern with small banners top and bottom. The face has a small emblem with a D & S inside a large G. I found this among my late aunt's possessions, and surmise that it belonged to someone in her husband's family.

I just did some checking and found that this watch was made by Gruen using non-Gruen imported movements, starting around 1910. Watch Specialties Co. was one of their divisions and the D&S G was one of their brands.

 

[mdengraver]

The history of the railroad watches was very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Steve Adams]

I didn't realize I would get such a good response, and a history lesson to boot. Good news at my end, and you'll like this Sam, the first watch he would send is solid gold. That is a relief. Some others he mentioned are gold filled. I guess I could learn to engrave shallow. By the way, I already tried the Thermo-Loc once for a jig to hold a small part I needed to drill. There were about 25 or so identical rounded parts. In less than five minutes I had a jig, pretty cool stuff.