Critique Request Drawings

[Willem Parel]

A while ago Caty and I picked up the idea to send each other every two or three weeks an outline in which we have to fill in our ideas.
With this coöperation we both will try to improve our drawing and designing skills.
It was Caty's idea to share this on the forum so we can get advise and comments of other members.
This is the outline Caty send to me and the scroll I drew into it.



I will also show you the outline I drew a couple of weeks ago en send this also to Caty, here the result I made of it.
The first one is without darkened background the second is with.
I don't know whats better while drawing, when darkening the background some details easely get lost in the dark parts.
All comments are very welcome.

 

[Willem Parel]

Oh, in the first drawing I imediatly see two spots I missed, on the left the two rounded leafs I had in mind to make them simular, don´t know what happened.
And in the upper part just left from the middle (left from the teardrop) , the stem is missing a bit.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Willem

Good idea that you and Caty have.

Your drawings.........they suffer from what most beginner suffer from, that is, ignoring borders. The actual design ends up looking like it is suspended in the middle of the borders. This is more emphasised when you blacken the background. This makes the design look as though it it has just been randomly placed within the shape of the canvas.

When you start the drawing, try to draw your main lines first, before you do anything else. These main lines may consist of scrolls or leaves or frames, or whatever. Keep refining these main lines until they are absolutely right. These are the foundations of your drawing and if they are wrong.........everything else will be wrong.

If your initial design is to big for the borders, then break it down by adding scrolls as I have done. Keep refining this until it is working.........look at the design from all angles as it should look correct upside down (even if there is a top and bottom to the design)

Pay attention to making sure that they touch borders like I have shown in the rough attachments. Touching the borders is essential otherwise you end up with the design suspended in the middle. Now when I say touching borders I mean touching, not sort of touching. When you cut the design the scroll should actually intersect the border line otherwise shrinkage occurs.

Having your main lines touch borders will make your design look a hundred times better.

You are on the right track, but it just needs further refining. This can sometimes be done with one drawing or sometimes........... it takes a hundred.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[thughes]

Or 200 or maby even 300 for some of us.

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

I don't agree that it is as simple as breaking it down to several smaller scrolls. There is more to consider.

The first is that the back bones need to have a measure that includes the backbones to be proportioned more gradual. In other words . One or two big scrolls and then filling the remainder of the space with a bunch of small ones looks off balance.

Instead I would reduce the size of the first two scrolls and start over. It's not just about filling space. I agree that the backbones are all that needs to be drawn in the beginning by beginners until they can get them correct. After that step then one can fill in with leaf structures. there are some measures to them as well . That is for another time.

Chris

 

[Red Green]

You have a very promising design. The bottom portion of the lower design would be very pleasing with a little balancing and refining the drawing a bit. The top does not belong with the lower design I believe you added it to fill the space, doing so is not often productive with design. Try redrawing it using only the lower part, you will need to curve the top left stem to the right to help fill the space, strait lines don't fit well with scrolls. Draw the design and fit the boarder by sizing it to the design so it sits well with it. I do hope you will forgive me if you feel I am attempting to troll or bait you as I have offered no proof that I am capable of an opinion, however I believe you will be pleased with the effort.

Bob

 

[Willem Parel]

Thank you all for the replays, I do admit that I rather quickly start to draw in the leaves.
And I have to give Caty also credits for pointing at my backbones, they werent right she said (I have to believe her now...)
So I will put more attention to that in the next drawing.
I have to say, it is sometimes getting a bit confusing but time will tell if I ever will understand.
For instance, in this drawings I took Sam´s video of drawing scrolls as an example.
In that video Sam is drawing a very nice scroll with beautiful outside leaves, just what i like and tryed to copy.
Andrew, can you tell me why the backbone need to touch the border as much as you drawn in the upper part of the lower drawing.
In that way you will never be able to attache outside leaves, isn´t it getting boring following the outline that much as you drew?
What I had in mind was a large scroll that (like you all mentioned) filled the space.
And I really tryed to keep a good balance in positif space and negative space and letting the leaftips touch the border for creating small closed areas for background removal.
I will read all your comments very carefully (the englisch language still has to sink in a bit) and take it with me to my next step.
And I hope in the next you will see I have learned from your comments.
Thanks again.
Willem

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Andrew, can you tell me why the backbone need to touch the border as much as you drawn in the upper part of the lower drawing.
In that way you will never be able to attache outside leaves, isn´t it getting boring following the outline that much as you drew?

Hi Willem

The rough drawing I did is extreme and was only to demonstrate the point about scrolls touching borders. In reality, you would probably want to make it smaller and add more scrolls.

By making the scrolls smaller, and more of them.........then you have the opportunity to add outside leaves.

The best way to see this in action, is to start the drawing again with more, and smaller scrolls. Make sure the scroll back bones touch the borders........then you will see what I'm talking about.

It's actually quite hard to explain

This is only one way of doing it. You can also make scrolls where the leaves curl round the scroll back bone (and touch the borders) and become an integral part of the scroll. But that is starting to get quite complex.

One thing that may be of help, and I would highly recommend, is the use of Thumbnail Sketches...........these are very small and rough sketches where you draw some basic outlines that enable you to quickly see what works and what doesn't.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Red Green]

Please forgive my further interjection, the design and border are one expression. By not integrating them you create two, as though you were attempting to force two designs to share the same space. The border is not a picture frame and cannot serve as one, it is more like a window or porthole to the world of scrolls through which they are growing in to greet you. Think of it not as if you were placing the scroll in the border but the border as an opening to the visible portion of your design. When sizing a border to the design you will find yourself thinking more about depth in your design, as you refine your drawing try to use the border to help create the illusion.

Bob

 

[diandwill]

I tink the idea of sending the shapes back and forth is grand! It is a good exercise in working with differnt design concepts. One thing that I think would also help is use and scale. The pear shapes are a design that I use for earrings, but to include that much detail would make them priced too high for general purchase. The first shape could be a knife bolster, or money clip...perhaps even a belt buckle. Each one would scale differently and require a different treatment.
Again, what a great idea. Please keep it up!