Draw/Cut/Draw/Cut/Draw/Cut

[Phil Coggan]

Bill, I have always said that each person will reach his own level at whatever he or she does, for example, it is possible to learn to copy Stephan Grappelli playing a tune but far more difficult if not impossible to ad lib like him, as it comes from his soul

Phil

 

[Choppers_rule]

Is there a circumstance when you prefer transferring your drawing over drawing directly onto the piece? Perhaps on more intricate designs?

Initially, I started transferring the design with pictorico film/ inkjet printer but lately, to save time, I just draw directly or using carbon paper/ paint marker to transfer/ trace the design. One thing I noticed, it's easier to draw on a piece of paper than drawing on uneven metal surface lol

 

[Phil Coggan]

As I mentioned previously It takes me two days, maybe three days on more involved
designs for the sides and bottom of an action, I always do this on plastic tracing film and to actual size, the reason for actual size, it is too easy to pack too much in when the size is larger, only to find that when reducing it to transfer that it is too compact.

Phil

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Great photos sequence thanks, Phil..........always a pleasure to see how you work

Cheers
Andrew

 

[a.khaksari]

Really great job Phil! Thank you for sharing.
I really like those tests on your clamp! Just like mine!

 

[Dani Girl]

I do catch myself doing some cutting on the fly. Usually putting leaves inside scrolls. I still like to have a rough draft on the metal first so I plan ahead where I want something to overlap and what goes under what.

Lee that's a cool page of sketches ... if I drew a page full like that they would all come out very similar. You have a talent for turning your hand to different styles.

 

[Doc Mark]

This has been a very interesting thread. I've been drawing all my life, from early childhood onward. So the concept, often touted here by the Pros, of Draw, Draw, Draw always pleased me. And yet..... I would no more directly draw, then engrave, on a Holland and Holland (or any fine piece of metal) then I would damage a Fabrege egg! It's not my drawing ability that I fear, but rather my DESIGN ability. I work over my design sketches "ad infinitum", often without really gaining any insight. But finally, when I'm happy (or at least beaten into submission) enough, then I use my drawing to make a transfer if possible. Now on heavily curved surfaces I do direct drawing but am following my pre-determined design. Designing "on the fly" will probably never work for me, no matter how long I keep at this game. It's just not in my DNA. But boy, do I envy those of you who have that finely cultivated "eye" for design. You seem to unerringly just "know" where a certain element will fit or enhance your overall design concept. A fine design looks effortless, yet we know it is not. It's like a masterful Beethoven concerto. Remove one note and the piece is diminished. Change a phrase, and the music falls apart. It's this genius that makes the best engravers stand apart from the journeymen who can cut a fine line, but miss on the design.

 

[diandwill]

...and like Stepan Grapelli, Phill just fiddles around. I just wish I could Django along with him, alas my guitar playing is even worse than my engraving. I do enjoy the 'Hot Licks".

 

[Sam]

This has been a very interesting thread. I've been drawing all my life, from early childhood onward. So the concept, often touted here by the Pros, of Draw, Draw, Draw always pleased me. And yet..... I would no more directly draw, then engrave, on a Holland and Holland (or any fine piece of metal) then I would damage a Fabrege egg! It's not my drawing ability that I fear, but rather my DESIGN ability.

It all boils down to confidence, Mark. Phil handles his gravers like a wizard, but more importantly he possesses design instincts that few engravers have, and I assume he's no more intimidated by a $200,000 gun than a $2000 one. These instincts can't be taught, and are only developed by years of drawing untold thousands of combinations of ornaments and learning what works and what doesn't. And putting in the years is no guarantee an engraver will be another Phil Coggan or a fiddler will become another Stephan Grapelli. There are certain abilities that some artists have that we simply can't explain.

Forgive my explanation...I realize I'm not telling you something you don't already know, but I felt it was worth mentioning.

 

[Phil Coggan]

Thanks Sam, some nice words there from you.

I think we all know now that it's firstly design and then cutting quality, because no matter how good the cut is, if it's not got a good design then it won't come up to scratch.....I wonder where that phrase came from!

These days I prefer to design free leafy type scroll as opposed to formal designs, with the formal design such as the Royal, scrolls need to fit into all areas perfectly, with the acanthus leaf type, scrolls can go every which way, no need to worry if they don't fit an area or go right up to the border as leaves etc can be added to fill these spaces, much easier I think....but having said that, the design still has to look good.

Phil

 

[Riflesmith]

In my minds eye I have a picture of the design and how I want it to look, I first lay out my scroll pattern and the elements just seem to sometimes fall into place as I draw them on and make adjustments while cutting. For me it's the shading technique that brings the element to life.

 

[jerrywh]

Phil.
There is still a lot that you and the other older engravers know that will take us newer guys many years to do or accomplish. If we live that long. I tried to learn when I was in my 20's but couldn't find anyone to teach me. If it weren't for guys like Sam Welch, Robert Evens, Frank Hendrix and the Guild I doubt if I would ever have figured it out.
I know exactly how you feel because I started making muzzle loaders from scratch back in the 50's and there were no books that I could find and no parts that could be bought were I lived. These builders now are in heaven. The only engraver that I knew would only tell me how good he was. He would not give me any info or instructions. I won't tell his name.

 

[Lee]

I think we need to be careful not to make too much of the phrase "on the fly". The impression that it just flows out of some and is always spontaneous is unlikely and infrequent. For me each design development is calculated and considered. At the very least the main backbones and elements are carefully placed. It tends to be the details- leaves, etc.- that are sometimes on the fly and not as carefully pre-planned.

A fundamental design principle is -never, never, ever sacrifice form for detail. The form is the backbones, trellises, ribbons, banners, shields,etc. and the details are the leaves, flowers and smaller elements.

Doc Mark is spot on with the observation that drawing and designing are different animals. Practiced drawing allows one to more quickly draw accurate scrolls and elements in the design process. Designing is the placement, size, and arrangement of those elements. This comes through learning what creates a pleasing and elegant design. A good teacher can explain the principles and using these principles with careful observation of one's own work and why some things work and some things don't is the journey of learning. Some things we do intuitively and may not understand why the outcome is acceptable or unacceptable. This is where a knowledgable teacher can point out the whys and hows. Over the years I have told my students many times that you would do well to make as many mistakes possible during our time together so I have a chance to try to help them understand what happened. They are always hoping I'm smart enough o help them. It's actually worked a few times.

Don't be afraid to try many different things on paper. Careful observation and experience are good teachers. How patient are we?