downloading fonts?

[mitch]

as i've mentioned many times, computers are not my area of expertise, but i find they have their uses. i'm currently in need of a classic Old English font and there appears to be no such animal in my newish iMac (nor in my old one, i checked). i'm not terribly particular about the specific letterforms, i just like to type out whatever needs engraved to work out size, line spacing, centering, etc., and then i usually hand draw the letters anyway (i've never had much luck getting a sufficiently clear, sharp, dark transfer for very small lettering, especially a style as detailed as Old English). yes, it's cheating a bit, so stipulated.

a quick google search shows a number of 'free' font sites. can anybody make a recommendation? (a little advice on how the process works would be most appreciated, as well!)

thanks in advance!

 

[Southtexas]

http://www.dafont.com/ is a trusted site. Instructions for downloading and installing are on the first page. Old English style fonts are under 'Gothic' subset 'Mideval', many available you'll need to look through them to find one that suits you.
Other sites work well too.
Cliff

 

[mitch]

thanks, Cliff, but now the problem i'm running into is that after sifting thru dozens of Old English-ish fonts i'm finding these sites tend to have fonts that have been modified/modernized/hipsterized or otherwise altered in ways the designer finds new/different/interesting/cool (and to be fair, many are quite attractive). however, what i'm after is a very traditional, classic Old English- basically a digital version of the sort one might find in an old Bergling book. anybody have any idea where i'd find such a font?

 

[Marrinan]

Traditional fonts, like printers use are copy written. Truetype holds the copy rights to nearly every conventional professional type face. That is why we have new times roman rather than Roman. They charge for you to download and use them. Also your printer has to be setup to use true type fonts. Some printers are not even capable of using Truetype. I am reasonably sure the Bergling fonts fall into this category. You may find similar fonts but they will have slight variations. Fred

 

[mitch]

seriously, Fred? undoubtedly TrueType, et. al, do hold licenses on many fonts that can be shown to be within their very specific catalogs, but an all-encompassing restriction on stuff that's been around for literally hundreds of years and was not invented/created in the US (in fact, predates the formation of this country) is under copyright? i base this supposition on the tons of copyright-free images & fonts in Dover books, etc. there's gotta be something suitable, and suitably generic, floating around the web. my search continues...

 

[Southtexas]

Even Meek's book shows 2 versions of Old English, and those were not computer fonts... hand drawn.
So I fear your quest might be a bit more intensive than you thought.
I'll be honest, I've not used Old English on any project since high school (and that was the pre computer era).
Cliff

 

[mitch]

i found "Olde English" by Dieter Steffmann on UrbanFonts (http://www.urbanfonts.com/fonts/old-english-fonts.htm). it appears to be close enough to a traditional version for my purposes and downloaded fine into my mac & Word for Mac program. my engraved version will have considerable modifications (more curves/fewer straight lines, pointed serifs, etc.), but for working out size, centering, & spacing it should work great.

 

[dlilazteca]

Send Gerry s message I've seen a book he has, that contains old style fonts that your looking for.

Carlos De La O III

 

[monk]

try haroldsfonts.com. i've found that most (not all certainly) places give you a few junk or gadget fonts. it's worth a few bucks to get what you want the first time. i'm sure their fonts can be used on a mac.

 

[Marrinan]

I hear what you are saying Mitch but remember Ralph Loren got a copy write on the name Polo and the World Wrestling Federation lost a copy right battle with world wildlife fund. Those old printers fonts are in copy written books that are a couple of hundred years old. Printing companies pay a royalty for using them. Fred

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Computer fonts are a tricky area. Not so much about the copyright issue but more to do with quality.

Like everything, it depends on what you are going to do with them and how often they will be used. It is an area that you get what you pay for.

Generally speaking, if you are prepared to pay for a font you have a lot of choice and the fonts are of a lot better quality. This is important for publishers and the like.

It's fair to say that 99% of free fonts are not very usable. They tend to be acid trip over the top styles that aren't all that readable and the kearning is not brilliant..........but they are free!!!

Depending on exactly what you want to do, it can pay to buy a couple of fonts that you will use a lot.

You also have to be careful downloading fonts on a Mac. If they aren't validated then they can really mess with programs like Word for Mac.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[mitch]

they can really mess with programs like Word for Mac.

Cheers
Andrew

speaking from frustrating experience, i can't imagine Word for Mac could possibly be a more bug-riddled collection of digital garbage than it already is. if anything, a good chunk of malware could only improve it. almost every time i use it i end up thinking "HOW could anybody release this not-even-beta-level junk???"

 

[Southtexas]

have you looked into open office for mac?
Cliff

 

[Andrew Biggs]

speaking from frustrating experience, i can't imagine Word for Mac could possibly be a more bug-riddled collection of digital garbage than it already is. if anything, a good chunk of malware could only improve it. almost every time i use it i end up thinking "HOW could anybody release this not-even-beta-level junk???"

Yep..that about sums it up

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sam]

I purchased an old English font from LetterheadFonts.com. I don't remember which one it was but I use it on a certificate. LetterheadFonts aren't free, but they're some of the best you'll find anywhere.

 

[ahenson]

seriously, Fred? undoubtedly TrueType, et. al, do hold licenses on many fonts that can be shown to be within their very specific catalogs, but an all-encompassing restriction on stuff that's been around for literally hundreds of years and was not invented/created in the US (in fact, predates the formation of this country) is under copyright? i base this supposition on the tons of copyright-free images & fonts in Dover books, etc. there's gotta be something suitable, and suitably generic, floating around the web. my search continues...

An easy way to understand how "fonts" can be copyrighted is to compare them to the Dover books. While a Dover book may contain hundreds of images in the public domain, the book itself is copyrighted. Dover took the time to put the images in order, lay them out, create a cover design, etc.

If any of you were so inclined to locate the original source of those images, you could create, publish, and sell your own book of copyright-free designs; you could not, however, use the Dover books as a source or duplicate the content too closely without infringing on Dover's copyright.

The font itself is generally defined (now, but not traditionally) as the collection of letterforms in a format readable by the computer — it is like software. The Old English typeface was designed by William Caslon, but a type foundry actually created the font and therefore own the copyright to the file you use on your computer. Unlike the Dover book, which you physically own and may burn, sell, or leave on a shelf at your discretion (but not copy in large parts or in whole), you will never own the font; you only purchased (or have) a license giving you certain rights to use it in certain ways, which may be quite restrictive.

Now, the reason so many fonts are expensive when the original typeface has been around and commonly used for hundreds of years? The kerning, leading, letter spacing, glyphs, ligatures, etc., all require experience and great knowledge to produce a set of letters that work well together AND are readable, even when based on a design like those of William Caslon or John Baskerville.

This is also the reason to avoid a majority of free fonts for serious, professional work. Many — but not all — free fonts are poorly put together in font creation software and do not adequately express the relationships between the letters. It is quite easy to use font creation software now, but I would compare it to engraving — just because someone can cut does not mean they have good design skills, right?

Now, you can find a few historical typefaces where the font is close enough for most work, though some fonts parade as the original typeface and yet have poor kerning.

The one closest to Old English, originally designed by William Caslon and made into a font by Linotype, would be Cloister Black. It is near exact and you can download it for free on daFont: http://www.dafont.com/cloister-black.font

I would suppose that the designer of Cloister Black used an original source of the typeface to create this; otherwise, Linotype might go after them legally. Who knows?

Hope that helps clear up the copyright issue with fonts (versus typefaces).

 

[Marrinan]

As for the Word for Mac issue that is strictly an apple issue. When writing code programmers use assigned addresses on your computers hard drive and in its memory to preform specific functions. Apple maintains tight unyielding control over memory code location and use. When a third party, Microsoft or anyone else writes a program to run on mac they are not privy to restricted addresses or reserved addresses and must jump through Hugh hoops and sign away rights and significant share of profit to get the product to function. This is how apple controls it's products and makes a cut off of any software for apple not sharing profits with apple. It is why apple software costs more or why third party software is simply not available for apple products. This was Jobs business model. It is why apples market share is around 5%. PC have the same issues, reserved memory allocations. That is why your new PC runs perfectly when you buy it but as you add third party software conflicts occur. It is something apple users just have to live with. less third party software higher prices but they do make good door stops. Other opinions will be violently defended I am sure. Lock this or delete it as you are inclined, after all you may be an applifite. But truth Is truth Fred

 

[Sam]

I have Word for Mac but rarely use it. Apple's Pages app does all I need to do.

 

[mrthe]

I ise OpenOffice in Mac and work well too and is totally free, Pages work great too and is more cheap than Word too, apple software is not more expensive, expecially now, a lot of software buying new macs or ipad/iphone are now totally free, and the new OS is free for all the users too.

 

[Beathard]

Carlos the book is at http://www.grstools.com/books/letters-and-monograms/002-715.html