Question: Dental/Surgical Loupes

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi guys, I wonder if anyone uses or can give any advice on dental/surgical loupes? I've recently started working for a gun company that like a lot of extra work on their barrels and trying to keep the work under the scope is nigh on impossible. Believe me, when you're working on a set of .500" double rifle barrels you know it!!!

The old optivisor is just too weak in it's magnification now (having gotten used to a scope) so I started thinking about getting a set of dental loupes for barrel work and engraving ovals on stocks. They seem to range in price from under £100 ($150) to well into 4 figures. Obviously, the cheap eBay ones are Chinese, but I've found some over here that cost around $450-$500 and wonder if these are any good or are they just Chinese ones fancied up with a fancy price?

I don't mind spending this kind of money but don't want to go into the thousands $ because they are only for occasional use. Are the mid priced ones worth it or should I just get a pair of eBay cheapies? Like all things, you get what you pay for I know but as I say, these won't be my primary source of magnification. Also, for gun work which magnification is best 2X or 3X and what working distance?

Any advice gratefully accepted

 

[KCSteve]

Marcus

I can't answer your exact question but I'll at least add to the confusion.

Acting on a forum posting, when I got my last pair of glasses I got a second pair. These are just for close work so they're my close focus prescription plus a +4.5. I can only see about 16 inches with them on but I can see pretty darn well in those inches.

All my optometrist did was set up my prescription on the headpiece and then hold the diopter lenses in front. I wanted +5 but the working distance was too short.

There are some nice things about this system:
Very portable - just a somewhat heavy pair of glasses
Non obvious - Mike Dubber has a pair of bifocals with two differnt magnifications he uses during demos. I only know because we were talking.
You can still use (some) other magnification. I have some trouble with visors - tricky to get things set just right, but they work great with a scope. Increased magnification with no loss of field of view.

Just a thought.

 

[Sam]

Good luck with those things, Marcus. I've tried 'em and never could get used to them. In order to have sufficient magnification (to suit me, anyway) the depth of field is razor thin and the least head movement makes everything out of focus. Lower power ones are more forgiving, but an Optivisor is fine for low power work. Of course it's all in what you get used to. I'm so used to a scope that nothing else ever works for me. But if I absolutely HAD to use a headset magnifier I could probably adapt. Not sure if I could deliver the same quality of work, though.

 

[mdengraver]

Zeiss

Zeiss makes excellent loupes but they are expensive!

 

[fegarex]

Marcus,
I am with Sam. I borrowed a pair from an eye surgeon and then bought a pair myself. The least little head movement was like using a microscope in an earthquake. Perhaps there are better options out there in the last 10 years but I never got used to them.

 

[Doc Mark]

Marcus,

You bring up a whole new set of problems when you consider Surgical Telescopes (yep, that's what their called) for engraving. I wear them daily and mine are the fairly standard 2.6x magnification. These give me a working distance of about 16 inches. I've tried to use them for engraving but I found, like you, I've become so dependent on a microscope, that I felt that I needed more magnification. They make true Surgical Telescopes up to 4.5 power with excellent working distances. However, the depth of field is much more limited. Whatever size you decide upon, make sure they are the "through the lens" type system. You want the lenses as close to the eye as possible to gain the greatest field of vision. Be aware that many of the companies selling the higher magnifications will only make them custom fitted to your vision and these little buggers are going to cost you. Go to "Designs for Vision" website to see what I mean. There are other companies fabricating these devices and you may find something more reasonable in the European market.

I've never found any type of loupes or surgical telescopes with the right combination of magnification, working distance, depth of field and price to really "get up close and personal" with our engraving needs.

 

[tim halloran]

Marcus: I Have A Pair Of Zeiss Prism Loupes, They Are 4.5 Power And Are Very Usefull. The Working Distance Is 13.5 Inches. They Are Not So Sensitive And Can Be Kept In Focus Quite Easilly. They Are Supposedly Surgical Loupes And Were About 1600.00 US Dollars Back In 1990. Hope This Helps.

 

[John B.]

Hi Marcus,
What Sam and Rex said.
I had an "H" of a time getting use to a scope after years with just readers or an Optiviser and tried every other way.
The best luck I had with the optical glasses was after I built a head rest rig to go with them.
But still a bit of a pain. Sold them.
Best.

 

[Marrinan]

Marcus,

Perhaps another approach would be worth considering. They make floor articulated microscope stands. They are available form the microscope store her in the states. From the comments here and on other threads related to this topic maybe it would be better to adapt your scope rather than your eyes. Just a thought. When I worked in hard drive industry we to the scope to the work rather than the work to the scope. Fred

 

[Herman Knives]

Marcus,
I have used Zeiss surgical loupes for over 20 years and love the freedom of movement you dont get with a microscope. If you get some be sure and get the Ziess loupes as the optics are perfect. No eye strain after working all day.
They simply are the best optics out there. I have an Olympus microscope but have never needed it or set it up.

 

[Dave London]

I have the Zeiss 4.5x 16" distance, take a little getting used to and like others would prefer a scope but they can be usefull. I think there is a guy over there( Phil ) :beat up:who uses 4.5 loupes sometimes:thumbs up:. Now I could be mistaken but I would check close to home. Good luck Dave

 

[John B.]

Hi again Marcus,
I realize the thrust of your question is to find an easier way to engrave gun barrels while using the microscope.
As I said above and others concur, the surgical glasses are not the answer IMO.
Please see the Tips Archive, page #5, Vertical or horizontal vise and holding fixture and also on the same page Methods of holding gunstocks.
Sorry, I don’t know how to create a link to these.
( Hint….. maybe KCSteve or someone can clue me in.)
Both of these topics have some information you might find useful to adapt to your use in engraving barrels while using the scope.
A modified long wood gluing bar clamp with homemade centers held in the type of vise shown allows you to turn the barrel in two axis and to re-clamp the bar to stay in the center of rotation.
I have a floor mounted scope stand as I mentioned in one of these post and as is also mentioned by Fred Marrinan in his reply to you.
I’ve not yet found the time to modify the column from the B&L size to the Meiji and Olympus size because I have been avoiding barrel engraving lately. Privilege of age, Ha ha.
I hope some of this will be useful to you as in the past you have mentioned having very limited space.
Best regards.

 

[KCSteve]

John B[/b

I'm off at a class right now but after I get home and recover I'll do a post on how to do links.

Marcus

Going along with what Fred and others have said, I seem to recall someone who mounted their stand to the wall so that it wouldn't get in the way of long items like barrels. I do remember threads about various bench adjustments and fixtures for barrels. The simplest one (which is why I remember it) was an eye bolt in the ceiling over the vise. Just a rope from it to the end of the barrel gave the support needed to keep it from tipping. One more thing to work around when it swings, but....

 

[monk]

i use the surgical (long tube ) type. not the galilean. about 4x. 16" or so fl. too heavy on the nose! way too heavy to use for more than a few minutes. as mentioned by the others, you almost have to lock your head in a vise while using them. i'd never buy the long tube type again.

 

[Dave London]

Re: the long tube surgicial loupes have the head band type so no issues on thr old beak, If i remember right M Dubber uses the glasses type and does not like the microscope. Different strokes for different folks

 

[mdengraver]

Has anyone had any luck with Bifocal loupes for greater versatility?

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Thanks for all your replies guys. As I said, these surgical loupes aren't meant to replace my scope which I get on with very well. I only want them for those really tough occasional jobs so, unfortunately, the likes of Zeiss are out of the equation (if I had the kind of money they cost I'd rather invest it in a Zeiss scope, lol).

I've ordered a pair of 3X loupes that have a 30 day trial/money back period so I'll see if I get on with them and will report back.

 

[Phil Coggan]

Marcus,

4.5x is probably what you need but most of the cheaper ones don't get that high, where did you get your trial ones from?

I tried a Zeiss 10x on demo, just breathing put them out of focus, again probably a 4.5x would be ok.

My glasses are great, they're called "Versator" but as far as I know, out of production, there are a few scratches on them now.

Phil

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi Phil, Dad lent me his pair of 8X zeiss ones that cost him a fortune but it was like trying to hold a pair of high powered binoculars still. They were just too powerful. 4.5X sounds great but I couldn't find a pair in my price range. These are the ones I've ordered but I don't know if they're any better than the Chinese eBay ones; http://www.theloupestore.co.uk/Surgical-Binoculars/Dental-Loupes-3-0x-350mm---Clip-Ons.html

 

[tundratrekers@mtaonline.n]

Marcus,i bet you could get different lenses for your dads loupes,from zeiss.I thought of getting a #.5 power B&L engravers glass,and making a rig to mount on optivisor head band.The glass is about 2-21/2 inches in diameter.God Bless,mike