Critique Request: Yet another newb scroll...

[Bluetickhound]

I have been trying today to step out a bit and do my own scrolls... I think the actual design is ok enough (the execution may leave a bit to be desired...) but the shading absolutely defies me. This also shows up in my practice plates so it comes as no surprise... If I can't draw it, it stands to reason that I wouldn't be able to cut it.

I bring this to you because I know you all will tell me the truth and more than that, how to improve so please have a look and give it to me straight!

Thanks!

Edit... Is there any way to rotate the photo 180 degrees?

 

[Crossbolt]

Mostly what I can say is it is better than my efforts in that area.
Not that I'm the best person to take advice from but one thing (two?) that strike me are that the primary backbone seems a bit straight and long over the cluster of secondary scrolls with the primary scroll on the left seeming a bit kinked. I guess it looks to me like there's too much "weight" on the underside.
Jeremy

 

[Bluetickhound]

The photo is actually upside down and I'm too dumb to figure out how to rotate it! Thanks for your input and you're right about the kink.

As far as the shading goes, I just today downloaded Sam's lettering video and in the leaf scroll lettering section he really goes into good detail about shading. I can't wait to get home from work and sit down with the sketchpad and work on it some more... I also pre-ordered Marcus' video/book set and I'm sure that will be of further help.

 

[JJ Roberts]

Bluetick ,I'm glad to see your drawing it's going to pay off,looks good. J.J.

 

[Bluetickhound]

I've been working with Sam's video and copying drawings done by others. That's great for getting off the ground but I wanted to channel my inner Burt Lancaster and go "no nets"... (If you ever saw Trapeze, you'll get the reference, if not, it's a really good movie!). I'm glad I did, and will be doing a lot more of it. I expect my cutting will improve hand in hand as my drawing improves.

 

[Sam]

I think what you have is looking really good and will definitely be engravable. My only nit is the leaf cluster between the two main spirals. I would scrap that and find another solution. But this is a very good attempt! :clapping:

 

[silverchip]

Did Marcus relent?? Is there really a pre-order list?? And you are getting off to a great start.

 

[Bluetickhound]

Thank you for your kind words and yes, we ganged up, posted a thread in the buy/sell forum and Marcus, praise (insert deity of your choice here) decided us mere mortals weren't going to leave him alone! I got the email yesterday and ordered first thing this morning.

Seriously though, I'm very grateful Marcus would take time away from other demands on him to get this set together for us. I can only imagine what a hassle it is to deal with orders, shipping on top of doing the legwork to make another run of the books and DVDS... I hope he knows how much we (and I'm sure I speak for several others) appreciate it!

 

[Omar Haltam]

Bravo, you are doing better than I am... and I wish you all the best.
I am putting in long hours at work and should make an effort to practice my scrolls more.. but bills await no one and customers need their stuff fixed LoL...
no matter I will keep trying and hopefully start posting some of my practice drawing here to get some advice on them as well.

 

[gazzman151]

You are doing good on your scrolls! I'm still at the tracing stage

 

[monk]

i think it's quite nice. if you cut this, look ahead of your graver tip, you may see a couple minor flat spots. by looking ahead of the cut, you may see them and correct "on the fly".

 

[Bluetickhound]

Tinkering with the design some more. After several incarnations this is where I'm at now. Still seems like it's missing something. Sam's advice to lose the leaf cluster between the spirals is sound and I've got a few rough sketches without them but this drawing has been about as close to happy as I've gotten. If I can get it right without the cluster I think I'll have something. Balance is really hard to achieve... It's either too busy or not busy enough. In any event, I'm posting less and drawing more and that's a GOOD thing!

 

[John B.]

Bluetickhound,
I congratulate you on your efforts in posting your drawings. Much of your linework has nice, smooth flow.
Hope you don't mind my observations
In this latest posting you have lost sight of the proportion of some of the elements IMO.
The size and bulk of the main elements is out of proportion to the outside leafwork.
The small leaf clusters look tacked on and it make them look like after thoughts.
Overall balance in your design is very important. Please keep working on it.
Drawing and design are the most difficult parts of engraving and you are putting in the effort.
Best wishes on your engraving journey.
John B.

 

[Bluetickhound]

Thank you, sir and I definitely agree with your assessments... The balance is out of whack and looking at the picture it's pretty clear. I may give this one design a rest and revisit it later. Sometimes starting out with a fresh sheet of paper helps refocus me and I can come back to this one with a new thought. Thanks again for taking the time to respond!

 

[Dani Girl]

I think you actually said that backwards, if you can't draw it you won't be able to cut it. I actually found that once I was able to cut it shading became easier to draw... it's something that's almost easier with a graver than with a pencil. Your way of putting it is true for the rest of the design but don't stress about the shading not looking great on the sketch.

I tried to tweak the design on the computer... you'll have to join the dots.

The top left changes... I like leaves near scrolls to come all the way to the scroll.

The top one... on three segment leaves the middle part usually comes out from kinda behind the side piece on one side, making that part an s curve coming from behind a curve on the side it's folding over on... make sense?

The starter spiral / scroll head could be bigger if you want it to,... doesn't have to be.

My changes are just my ideas... i'm no expert, there is no right and wrong way of doing anything, just giving you my 2cents worth... that's all it's worth... glean what you want to from everyone else's work... keep having fun with it.

Overall I love your sketch. Top work

 

[Bluetickhound]

Danae, that's awesome stuff! As a beginner it's hard to see what is pretty plain to folks with more experience. That's one of the great things about this site is that there are a ton of folks with that experience to learn from! The leaf clusters that don't look so out of proportion on my sketchpad look ginormous in the photos... I'll do some more revisions and post 'em later. I have Lee's book and video coming so I'm sure future offerings will be much improved.

I've been keeping up with you on FB and am a real fan of your work.

 

[John B.]

Thank you, sir and I definitely agree with your assessments... The balance is out of whack and looking at the picture it's pretty clear. I may give this one design a rest and revisit it later. Sometimes starting out with a fresh sheet of paper helps refocus me and I can come back to this one with a new thought. Thanks again for taking the time to respond!

A technique we use on the drafting board is referred to as overlay. Get a pad of "quick trace," light, thin inexpensive tracing paper. Trace the elements you wish to keep, remove the tracing and then add the elements you want to change. This allows you to keep the original design without erasures and gives you a progressive design for comparison.
It also keeps your minds eye from following and being influenced by the remaining shadow of your erasing when drawing the changes
John B.

 

[Dani Girl]

There's nothing wrong with some big leaf clusters unless you've got a bit design with lots of scrollwork and you're wanting a more even look... for that try drawing a heap of random shapes and completely filling them with scrollwork getting your backbones in the best spots then adding your leaves evenly around.

A sketch like yours would work better on like a necklace or something where you've got a scroll with nothing around it. Keep at it

 

[Bluetickhound]

I think I'm about done with this one for sure now. I got Lee's book and video today am an certain that future offerings will be much improved. Thanks to all of you for your input, suggestions and encouragement!!

 

[Dani Girl]

I think you should make that one into a pendant. Make the start scroll come around a drill hole... use a jewellers saw to cut it out of some thin brass or silver using its shape as the shape of the pendant... needle files... sandpaper... engrave!