computer use

[Jack Greenwade]

Can anyone recommend a really good program for drawing and laying out patterns for transfer. Preferably that can resize, invert, fit to size and mirror image, easily used and understood by a computer novice. I've talked to a couple of computer "gurus" but they aren't taht familiar with such programs . They did tell me that I would ned to know the Ram requirements aswell as other features of the program to insure I got a computer that would handle the program I appreciate any and all help. Thanks, Jack

 

[Sam]

Adobe Illustrator or CorelDRAW will do exactly what you need, Jack. However, learning to draw with these applications isn't as easy as you might think. It's definitely doable but requires a certain amount of dedication and time to learn.

 

[Red Green]

If you would prefer open source programming Inkscape is a very good vector program and GIMP is a very good photo manipulator, check them out, if you have to learn it, it may as well be open source.

Bob

 

[monk]

the magic of these programs lay in the time they can save you for routine design work. having said that i'll also say a pencil is just as valuable. perhaps not for saving time, but the pencil allows dwgs to be done on surfaces not amenable to hi tech transfer methods. also-- if you cant draw/design well- none of the programs will bail you out. drawing is a must for any serious engraver. after all, design comes from the mind, not machine.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jack

I second what Sam has said.

The computer software like Corel and Illustrator are great for making the actual transfers or putting together a bit of scene work in Photoshop.............but trying to draw with it is another thing altogether.

It all depends on your computer skills etc and these programs can be a real hinderance when it comes to drawing. Especially for beginners who really need to develop pencil skills.

And of course there is the money with these things. I've never tried Inkscape but if all you want to do is a bit of basic manipulation like mirroring, rotating etc then it may be the way to go.

As for Ram, most modern computers have already got a ton of it and should be sufficient. Older computers tended to come with not a lot. Where you really need a lot of RAM and a high end graphics card is if you are handling really large raster (photo) files............for engraving you really aren't going to be in that category.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[take-down]

I am no expet But I find the paint program that comes with your microsoft hardware is great for resizing, touching up & sometimes making alterations. I mainly use it for scaned hand drawen items

 

[maplesm]

Try http://www.xara.com/us/products/designer/
There is a learning curve but is cheaper.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I agree with both Sam and Andrew that one needs to invest time learning how to use those computer software. That also counts when using a pencil and paper.

Sure a pencil and paper one can use whenever he want no matter where.

Since most of us use power assist engraving tools sharpening systems and scopes, one could also say; forget about all these expensive tools as it also can be done using Hammer and Chisel. One not even needs a Vise doing it that way.

So to me, if one want it all, scope, power assist, centre vise and sharpening system, sure it isn’t wasted time using Vector software.

When I started engraving over three years ago, I started working on my skills using all tools including Adobe Illustrator. A lot of others here took my advice and started using Illustrator as well and they like it. And it isn’t that hard to start with using Illustrator, and is it expensive? So are any other tool then Hammer and Chisel.

Here is a video that demonstrates how easy it is using Illustrator, sure there are other ways that need more time, but the Monkey Tool as I call this, even a monkey can do this.

arnaud



[video=youtube;jFkYZTx8yzM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFkYZTx8yzM[/video]

 

[Sam]

Jack: Arnaud's monkey method is about as easy as it gets and I believe several members have learned his techniques for tracing designs in Illustrator, and that's probably the best way to start. Nearly all of my vector scroll designs started from a sketch on paper first, followed by a quick cellphone photo of the sketch brought into Illustrator for tracing. As for drawing from scratch directly into CorelDRAW or Illustrator (if that's what you want to do), it can be more difficult and time consuming. Tracing your sketch is far easier.

The beauty of vector software is that once you've traced and saved your design, you can scale, mirror, change the line thickness, and manipulate it any way you see fit. It's well worth the investment in time if this is something you need.

 

[Red Green]

Obviously there is a misunderstanding, Inkscape and GIMP are not simple little programs they are as powerful and sophisticated as their commercial counterparts. They were developed and are maintained by individuals and companies who do not like the way the 'big name' companies do things. Open source does not mean free it means you usually do not have to pay for it, because others already have with cash and labor. Ignoring the power of open source is not smart, time to wake up.

Bob

 

[Sam]

Bob: I tried Inkscape for Mac and it was a very poor performer. In fact it was junk. As I recall, when I mirrored a vector object it rasterized it, which is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen vector software do.

I think the Windows version might be better, and it's quite possible that the Mac version has gotten better.

 

[Red Green]

How much time and money have you got invested in your present programs? Remember how easy it was when you first started with them? As long as you feel you gave it a fair shot.

Bob

 

[Sam]

I've spent thousands of dollars on software, and no doubt will spend thousands more

Yes, I gave it a fair shot and had planned to do a tutorial on how engravers could use it. When it changed a mirrored (or pasted) vector to raster I about died laughing at that, then deleted it from my computer. After all, the whole point of using vector software is to make vectors, NOT rasters.

I know Windows users who claim they use it successfully, and hopefully what i experienced in the Mac version has been rectified. Anyone interested should give it a shot and see if it'll do what they need.

 

[billrice@charter.net]

Sam

I have been a corel draw user for a long time and I also have used adobe illustrator. very top of the line programs. I spent 25 years in the computer business worked for many companies last company I was a senior systems engineer for Citrix and after all that I am still looking for a cheaper way of working with my designs on a computer. I have tried everything I could find ( windows and Mac ) and to tell you the truth I have spent more time trying to make the cheap programs work than it was worth. I am still using Corel Draw and it does exactly what I want ( on Windows on Mac It has its problems ) So soon I am going to invest in Adobe Illustrator just like I have invested in my engraving equipment (which is allot of money) If you are a very computer savvy person the cheap programs will probably work however for most of those who are struggling with learning to engrave you do not want to also struggle with the software on the computer. I am sure everyone has had different experences with the software they are using however Sam, I go along way back with you all the way back to the corel days and I have always loved your videos like the one on corel draw Now I love seeing you spend your time on the new engraving training videos and I am looking forward to getting your next one which is on engraving

Keep up the great work you are doing. Hopefully we will get a sneak peek at your new engraving video soon

Your longtime admirer and computer friend

Bill Rice

 

[Red Green]

Sam I assume the program did just as you asked, they tend to do that. When using new software operations don't always match what other programs do. You may consider that the program was designed by users other than engravers so it may require that operation done before vectoring. Bill what do you mean by 'cheap programs'?

Bob

 

[billrice@charter.net]

Sorry I meant share ware or open source. Not cheap as in barely useable or no cost behind it. Companies like Adobe spend allot of money and resources to produce a product that becomes very popular in the computer world Resources like documentation, constant upgrades that are not always just fixes but enhancements to their programs, money spent in training and Marketing, Engineers in the field working with people using their software so they can find ways to enhance or fix their software so it that it constantly improves. etc

Again Sorry I meant no ill well toward anyone My wording was not accurate

 

[Red Green]

No problem, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I am surprised at your lumping share ware with open source, I don't see any connection other than they are both software. And it is true Adobe spends a portion of their enormous profit on programmers, how much I wonder. Just my opinion but I would imagine they spend much more on marketing engineers deciding how to make it look and act different and what features to hold back until the next demand for passing the pot.

Bob

 

[Andrew Biggs]

If buying the Adobe software is not an option because of the initial price. ...then you can go to their web site and subscribe to it monthly which gives you access to the software. This maybe an option for some people because you don't have the initial outlay.

The prices vary from country to country but if your serious about using Adobe Illustrator, then it may be the way to go depending on your circumstances.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[rod]

Lots of great advice on this thread, thank you, all!

Very true, Andrew,

About $30 a month for the whole Suite, and remember you can download and use free of charge for 30 days trial, the full and latest Adobe Suite CS6 (includes Photoshop and Illustrator). So, if you have a serious aim in learning these programs, and are a good student, and set aside some time, that could mean 5 hours of evening study for a month .... 15O hours of using the programs, plus a ton of YouTube tutorials to search for tips and demos as you go along. All this legally without spending a cent. That's a heck of a deal, and should help you decide if you want to own the programs. We engravers will mostly use the drawing part of these deep warrior programs, and leave huge sections unexplored, so going online and buying less expensive older versions can be one way to keep costs lower.

Arnaud's video is a good demo. Sam's post summarizes the view of most good engravers: that pencil and paper are a must, and the best for exploring and playing with a good design idea, and refining. Afterwards, vector, or Photoshop can be a handy addition to trace your good design. I wish I were better qualified to say this, but I will anyway, pencil, paper and looking at real objects, as you sketch them develops "seeing". It can be improved with practice, and accelerated with an inspiring teacher.

Oh, and another free gift for us wanna-get-better engravers.... great advice on the forums from many masters who post generously.

Jump in, the water's just fine! and good luck!

Rod

 

[Trueline]

Hi Jack. Question for you. What kind of computer do you have? Do you happen to own MIcrosoft Word? If so which version? There are tracing capabilities using MS Word I could share with you if you're interested.