Carbide 120 degree graver keeps breaking.

[partsproduction]

I just started my engraving hobby, and keep having to resharpen. I'm working with 416 stainless, and wondered if a clear thin cutting fluid would make them hold up longer?

Has anyone tried that? I have tap magic. I'm using a Gravermeister.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

At this stage of your learning curve I would suggest that it is probably more your technique than anything else. Also carbide is an unforgiving cutting tool.

Breaking gravers a lot and sharpening a lot in the beginning is just part of the deal. As you get more experienced, you still break gravers and sharpen a lot

I would suggest that you start with the Glensteel gravers as they are far more forgiving for a beginner (or anyone else). Carbide is very brittle and breaks very easily if used wrongly.

However, there are ways to strengthen a carbide graver, or any other graver for that matter. Make the face 55 degrees or thereabouts. Dub the tip. To do this you hold the graver vertical to a fine stone or ceramic lap and draw an M using no more than the weight of the graver. Do not press down........this very slightly dulls the end of the tool. But for shading cuts, do not dub the tip.

Good luck on your journey and enjoy the ride.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[GTJC460]

Everything Andrew suggests is great info.

I would add that turning up your stroke rate will help as well.

The best way to learn about graver geometry is to start playing with the face and heel angles till you find something that works well for you.

 

[Sam]

Good advice from Andrew. In my work I use carbide gravers but switch to high speed steel gravers if I'm frequently breaking points.

Carbide

• Extremely hard but brittle.

• Seven times stiffer than high speed steel of same dimensions.

• Stays sharp much longer in softer metals but can fail in harder metals.

• Retains a bright polish.

• Not very forgiving in the hands of a beginner working in harder metals.

High speed steel

• Extremely tough.

• Often better for harder metals.

• Doesn't retain a polish like carbide.

• Point becomes dull faster than carbide.

• More forgiving for beginners working in harder metals.

 

[Jared Eason]

I work a lot in 304 ss. Even when I started. I found the c-max to be my best graver material for me. I use a 50 degree face. Dub the point and a 100 degree graver . the 100 is in my opinion easier for beginners, it is far easier to control and get a consistent depth. After I swopped to c-max and started dubbing I can cut a lot of stainless steel without having to sharpen . but control has a lit to do with breaking points. Keep at it let the tool do the work, don't push it to hard, just enough to stay in the cut. Keep elbow up.. All this works for me, but may not for others.

 

[mrthe]

I want just add one thing more to all write before form the Masters , try to have a solid working station , try to avoid all types of vibration when you are cutting, from my point of view is very important,time to time i see photos of working benches where the vise is on a precarious and unstable surface, this don't help

 

[Jared Eason]

That's a very good point Mrthe. I will also add . I found if your cutting on a thin practice plate. And cannot completely put the entire plate on the vice, ( gap in between the jaws) I use non hardening sculpting clay. Stick to the bottom of the plat where its not making contact with vice. The clay will absorbed the shock and vibration.

 

[LVVP]

Very good advice, Andrew.
Thanks

 

[dlilazteca]

Great advice from everybody here's one more, sharpen only to 600 grit for the harder stuff, you'll see a difference

Saludos,

Carlos

 

[Andrew Biggs]

sharpen only to 600 grit for the harder stuff, you'll see a difference

Hi Carlos

That isn't always the case. I have found that the polished heel actually works a lot better for me on harder metals.

There has been a lot of discussion about this kind of thing but the results can vary considerably from person to person. If one thing isn't working, then try another till it does work

Cheers
Andrew

 

[dlilazteca]

Andrew,

Very interesting, I'll have to give it a try, it had worked for me i read an old thread, i don't remember what it was called, engraver phenomenon?

It talked about how it lasted longer, of course in conjunction with the other tips given, so i never looked back.

But now that you mention it, I'm going to try what you recommend.

found it here it is, i have made very small damage to the heels but never broken a carbide as of yet, but going to sharpen higher to see what happens I'm curious now.

Interesting graver sharpening phenomenon http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?t=14227 Interesting graver sharpening phenomenon

Saludos,

Carlos

 

[Beathard]

Andrew is correct. In hard stainless guns I'm doing it even varies in the same model. One Colt plPyton will beg for a 600, another cries for a 1200 with high polish. I keep trying till I find the graver that works. On softer metals I always use a mirror polish.

Keep heels small. Dub points. Don't push down or forward hard. Don't make sudden changes in direction. If you get something that doesn't want to cut, don't bulldoze through it, cut it from the other direction.

 

[BrianPowley]

All good advice. Here's mine:
As a beginner, get some softer steel to work with. You're compounding your learning curve frustrations with stainless steel..... even if it's 416 grade.
Find some 4140 or 12L14.

 

[Southern Custom]

Gerry, you are so right about the variance. I've had different gravers work in different spots on a seemingly unchanged surface. I just experiment with gravers till something clicks. And if nothing clicks I start experimenting with holding my tongue in various positions.
One of the oddest things I ever had happen was the day I cut for around 6 hours on some sticky, hard stainless with a carbide graver. I decided to see what combination of heel, dub, etc. had done this miracle for me and when I zoomed in really close, I found a micro chip in the tip of the graver. That graver went south on me a few hours later and I was never able to repeat that happy accident.
Layne

 

[tundratrekers@mtaonline.n]

Stress risers from sharpening seems to never be discussed?

michael

 

[dlilazteca]

Stress risers from sharpening seems to never be discussed?

michael

Discuss it then, that topic is new to me.

Saludos,

Carlos