Question: "Bulino" conventional heel vs bulino heel

[Mike Cirelli]

I didn't want to high jack the cast iron lap thread so I started this one.
I don't do enough bulino work, but I don't see much difference using a conventional heel vs the long bulino belly. I seem to have much more control with the conventional heel. Also with the bulino style graver if you cut the slightest curve it seems to have a lot of drag. To me the only benefit of the bulino style graver is that you can keep going deeper with the cut, and it seems to do this naturally. I guess that's what you want. But the cuts are very light and to me that the same results can be achieved with a conventional heeled graver. I'm not criticizing the bulino style graver. Just thought some conversation and incite on it would be good food.

 

[BrianPowley]

Mike, my thinking is that the bulino technique is a series of very tiny straight lines, or dots.
A heel on a graver basically does two things:
1. It increases the angle of the point for strength...i.e. a 50 deg face and a 15 deg. heel = 65 deg included angle of the point.
2. It provides clearance behind the cutting edge to eliminate tool drag...especially in curves.
(Now I said "basically"...I'm sure an engineer could go on and on about imparting cutting properties on different metals and surfaces,etc.,etc.)

A bulino tool, not having a heel, is used at a lower angle making very shallow straight line cuts in the metal.

And it can be resharpened much faster because you don't have to re-cut the heel.

Bulino works best with a sharp tool.
One of the important things I learned about bulino is to constantly touch up that point.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Mike, you hit it in one with the 'heel drag' observation. Like Brian says, the bulino heel is only really suitable for straight lines and dots. I don't know if you've ever seen some of the Italian guns up close but the Italian engravers can't cut curves with it either! The scenes may be magnificent but the scrollwork can sometimes look very crude indeed. Sometimes it looks like they've cut the spines of the scrolls with several, almost straight, cuts and it looks jagged and ragged. This is totally unlike the English method whereby the objective is to cut the spine in one cut.

The Italian bulino can be fantastic but it's often only at it's best when photographed and often is disappointing in reality as when I first saw it I expected it to look just like the pictures I'd seen and I was surprised just how crude the scrollwork was. You definitely need a conventional heel to cut scrollwork at it's best.

The great thing about Chris' bulino is he's taken the almost old fashioned style of cutting with lines and perfected it. In my opinion, this is far more durable and can be much more easily seen by the naked eye than the dot method.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Brian I understand that most bulino cuts a very straight. I don't see the benefit in the case of resharpening. If the tip comes off a graver sharpened with a small heel it usually doesn't break past the heel. If that happens with the bulino style it can break way back leaving more area to reshape. As far as the angle all you need to do is put a lower angle heel.
Marcus I have noticed that and spoke with others about the quality of some scroll. There will be beautiful bulino work and the scroll looks of much less quality. I never thought about them using the same graver. If I remember the old timers used to have a graver ground at an angle to one side or the other for right and left cuts.

 

[kcrutche]

Guy's

I am still at the practice plate stage of Bulino.

I use a conventional heel for Outlining (A Duck) and a Bulino Heel for all the straight line cuts.

One thing I am doing differently.

When cutting scrolls I cut outside the line so as not to reduce the size of my pattern.

When I outline the Duck I cut inside the line so as not to make the drawing larger.

Other than that I would use the graver I feel most comfortable with.

Ken

 

[jerrywh]

A great advantage of the bolino type graver is this. If you slip it comes up out of the metal and does not scratch the metal. If it is sharpened correctly it can't. It had to be pointed down in order to scratch the metal. Using a conventional graver, this is not so.
Also., I do not believe you can make as fine a cut with a cinventional graver. Besides there is never a heal drag with a bolino engraver.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Mike
As I mentioned to you earlier. I use both types of gravers for my work. With the bulino type of grind I do not cut very deep therefor heel drag is not an issue. I use it for moderate curves and straight lines. For sharper curves I use my regular style graver. Now that is when I am not too lazy to switch either way. In short.use what works for you but keep the tool very sharp. It's where you put the line or dot that matters the most.
Marty

 

[Phil Coggan]

On my last thread "H&H Left Side" http://www.igraver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5225 all of the main scroll including the shading was done with a bulino tool, no heel, the shading was done using the same tool that I use for fine game scenes, it has a minute tip, and incorporates as you can see straight lines, curved lines of many different radii, and dots.

The main scroll was done with exactly the same tool but with a larger tip.

Phil

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Phil, I'm absolutely amazed to say the least! How do you manage to cut so well without the heel dragging?

 

[Andrew Biggs]

After talking with Phil about these gravers I was keen to give them a try. Like everyone else I just thought that they were for small bulino type work.

They work just fine and a very versatile. If you are used to a heel then they do take a bit of getting used to and can get a bit wobbly.............but after a while you start getting used to them. They are razor sharp and only take seconds to sharpen as you are not putting a heel on them. A quick touch to the hone or a few wipes on the stone and you are back in business. You can cut back on burrs by leaning the graver but the burrs seem to be on the very surface of the metal and a quick wipe with grit paper and they are completely gone.

The last watch I did there was a fair amount of cutting done on it with one of these gravers

For some reason...........and I have no scientific idea why...........the cuts seem darker and are different (or it could just be my over active imagination) One thing I very much like about them was that the sharp bit is at the top of the tool which seemed to make the cutting easier to see. It's a very versatile graver geometry.

It's a very worth while graver to have a play around and experiment with and add to the arsenal of clever tricks. Like all these things it's great to explore what others are doing and give it a go for yourself.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

Well I'm finally home. This will be an intersting thread. Phil is absolutley correct, you can use the bulino style tool to cut everything. What I have observed is that the only reason you get drag with this style tool is because you are dropping your wrist when you cut the curve. This is a natural tendency for everyone to do. I just showed someone how I can cut a deep and tiny curve with this tool with no drag at all. All you have to do is make sure that when you start to cut the curve you do not drop your wrist at all, as if the tool was held in a sharpening fixture, and you will have no drag ,even if you go deep. Try it you will be suprised. A heel will be more forgiving, but if you drop your wrist to much it will drag as well.
This brings up another point. The length of the heel is related to the depth of the cut you can make with no drag. Another thing that I have noticed is that a longer heel will work beter than a very short one. I know that everyone is going to say, that this is opposite to the norm, but like the darker cut with a wider geometry. it works. There is a sweet spot that I cant really give you a measurement on, but it is probably twice as long as what is considered a proper length heel. All I can say is try it for yourself and let us know if it works for you. I will make some pictures of these things I am discissing in the next couple of days and post them, meantime give them a try. Chris

 

[Mike Cirelli]

My experience with an 80 degree bulino style, is that I can get the finest of lines with some nice depth. It's very smooth for me on straight lines and seems to glide right along. That style grind seems to be a little easier to lay the cuts right up against each other also. But as Chris states it's definitely not the darkest as a mater of fact it's actually the lightest color.
Thanks Chris; I have to try the don't drop your wrist thing. Especially after seeing the curves Phil is cutting, and the watch Andrew did.
It seems as though as Marty states he uses what he feels necessary, just as a painter uses many brushes so can a bulino artist use many different graver styles. Then there are some painters, pen and pencil artists that use one specific tool. So it comes down to as so many have stated before what ever works for you that is the right tool. But it is fun hearing and trying new geometries and such. It keeps thing fresh and exciting. Like before Chris' video I never heard of anyone grinding a 110 in a bulino style.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I try to understand what you all are talking about so let me resume this.

A bulino stile engraver has no heel and can cut everything but especialy strait lines.
It is also used for "bulino" (scenes) because it cuts darker lines as the point is sharper.
Phil use only one engraver bulino style (no heel) to cut strait main lines, curved main lines and the scenes.

Preventing the graver to go to deep, the face of the graver needs the right angle, so 45° will go deeper than a 60°

Or didn't I understand it? :big grin:

arnaud

 

[Phil Coggan]

Arnaud,
It cuts curves, straights, angled curves giving Very wide facets and with hammer will go deaper and wider than with any airgraver.

For deep work it is better with a 60 or more, this is just to add strength to the tip.

Phil

 

[Tom Curran]

To me, unintiated to Bulino as I know it, this is like listening to a Martian and a Buddhist talking about the finer points of the Universe.

 

[Phil Coggan]

Tom,
Bulino is just Italian for graver or burin, what i'm talking about is just a V tool but the tip of the V is not left as the bottom of a square graver but is ground so that the cutting point it higher, allowing the back of the tool to be dropped thus stopping it from diving.

Phil

 

[Tom Curran]

Phil, this has been bugging me, since reading this post.

Is your gun engraved in ALL bulino style, all shallow cuts, or are there areas of deep relief, and then shaded with bulino? I thought for the world, until now, that it was all deep relief chiseled except for the scene panel.

If it is all shallow cuts, it's even more impressive in a way, in that it would be SUCH an illusion of depth and contour.......

Regards,

Tom

 

[Phil Coggan]

If you mean is the gun engraved with all cuts as fine as my game scenes?... The scroll shading is, the scroll itself is deaper with the background removed and matted.

Doing it the way you suggested would surve no purpose and would take too long.

Phil

 

[Tom Curran]

Thanks for your reply Phil. I was not understanding your description. Now it comes together for me.

Tom

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Okay, I've just set up a 110º bulino graver as per Chris' instructions, tiny face, etc. It cuts just great just as Chris demonstrates in his video. But when it comes to trying to cut scrolls, yuk!!! The heel drag is dreadful and when it comes to cutting leaves there is none of the 'quill like' nature that a heeled graver has as I gently flange it to give variation in cut.

So the question is, how are you using the unheeled graver Phil and Andrew? Have I made the face too small for cutting scrollwork? My normal graver leaves cuts that require no sanding whatsoever. The bulino graver on the other hand, well.........it's excrement by comparison!