Beginner - Novice - Expert

[Sam]

Grading should be judged by the level of the work one produces. This art form cannot be counterfeited. If you do master work in all required fields you are a master in that field. When a football player gains 2000 years in a season he becomes an all pro. No body asks him if he has been playing long enough to be one. If one was to reverse the question it would be why has it taken so long for some to achieve the master level than others?

With today's tool technology and information access, a beginning engraver can reach an "average" level in record time. If or how soon one reaches master level depends on perseverance, talent, dedication, and a relentless desire to create exceptional designs executed with masterful precision.

Obviously some make it there faster than others. Those that can devote plenty of time to study and practice will get there faster than those with jobs, families, and obligations that consume precious spare time.

 

[Roger Bleile]

I have never called myself a "master engraver" nor do consider myself one. Nevertheless, others have said I am a master because they own something I engraved and want to sell it. This happens all of the time with engravers. Just read the descriptions of engraved guns on auction sites. Every engraved gun, no matter how egregious, was cut by a "master."

I'm glad that FEGA has a process to certify masters and if I ever want to call myself a master, I will submit my work to the judging process. People can argue all day long that FEGA's criteria is to easy or difficult but the fact is that FEGA is the only organization in the US qualified to make such a certification. There are a very few manufacturers (like Colt) who have also undertaken to designate master engravers.

I would like to hear from one of our Austrian or German members the process for obtaining a Meisterbrief certification.

 

[Southern Custom]

Just thumbing through your new American Engravers book and decided we need a 4th catagory. Beginner, novice, expert and Brian Hochstrat.
Layne

 

[Big-Un]

I have never considered myself an expert, but a case in point here; the individual of our lodge, responsible for press releases and general local information, has determined to promote the Henry Big Boy I engraved as "hand engraved by master engraver....." and when I protested, he informed me he was in charge of promoting it and in his opinion I WAS a master engraver. So, no matter what we consider ourselves,it is in the eyes of the public that we are classified. All I can say is, remain humble with such accolades and by all means, don't let it go to your heads.

Bill

 

[dogcatcher]

If your clients and fellow engravers consider you a Master Engraver, then I would consider you a Master Engraver. Maybe not "tooting" your own horn, but letting anyone use the term with your name if they want to.

I don't believe that the amount of time involved in engraving should be a factor, some people have natural talent, they just need to use it to perfect it. Others, like most of us have to work at it, and work hard at training ourselves to reach the level of those that were born with the artistic talent. The same applies to almost everything in life, some people can pick up a paint brush without training and paint a pretty good picture, while others cannot take a simple photograph and make it look good.

 

[vilts]

The same applies to almost everything in life, some people can pick up a paint brush without training and paint a pretty good picture, while others cannot take a simple photograph and make it look good.

It is exceptionally hard to make photographs look good . Everybody can point and shoot and take sharp colorful photographs of sunsets, tech is there for everybody. But when you start to look at the work of masters, you know immediately there's something (usually a lot) lacking in your own work. For example take a look at one of my favorite photographers: W. Eugene Smith, amazing stuff. Technically very good and sometimes quite "photoshopped", but nothing one couldn't learn in a few days with modern tools. But still, only a few can make photos like that.

Same for master engravers (whether official titles or not). You can just look and get lost in the beauty of the work. Beginner and novice work is... "meh" and you move on.

 

[Sam]

Same for master engravers (whether official titles or not). You can just look and get lost in the beauty of the work. Beginner and novice work is... "meh" and you move on.

This is one of the best descriptions of Master yet. There's lots of decent engraving in the world and in this forum, and most of it's very predictable. There's nothing to get lost in. Then you see the work of Phil Coggan for example...or Ken Hunt's fabulous ornamental artwork or Lee Griffith's designs, and you might get lost for an hour or two. THAT is master class work.

 

[Jan Hendrik]

This is one of the best descriptions of Master yet. There's lots of decent engraving in the world and in this forum, and most of it's very predictable. There's nothing to get lost in. Then you see the work of Phil Coggan for example...or Ken Hunt's fabulous ornamental artwork or Lee Griffith's designs, and you might get lost for an hour or two. THAT is master class work.

I fully agree with you Sam. I would add Vlastik Petak, Aleksey Subarof, Steve Lindsay, Barry Lee Hands and yourself to that list of masters that captivate their audience. A simple glance is just not enough to fully grasp the beauty and skill of these artists and masters of their craft.

 

[Beathard]

A master is someone who excels at the work they are able to get...you can't compare a factory/contract engraver doing expert level jobs to that of someone doing one of a kind $100k+ jobs. Nor is it right to compare someone cutting practice plates to one doing real guns. This discussion is comparing apples to oranges. An artist must first be a businessman/businesswoman and make the financial decision to pursue work that pays and is available or sit around playing with practice plates till someone decides to take a chance on them.

 

[Beathard]

Also when there was a master/apprentice system most master engravers could not approach the levels of Coggin and Hunt. I believe that master means something different to many on this thread. Is it a professional businessman that can also teach or is it a Michelangelo level artist that only a few handfulls of people can achieve in 500 years?

 

[Sam]

Also when there was a master/apprentice system most master engravers could not approach the levels of Coggin and Hunt. I believe that master means something different to many on this thread. Is it a professional businessman that can also teach or is it a Michelangelo level artist that only a few handfulls of people can achieve in 500 years?

I would say a few handfuls, but I wouldn't say in 500 years. You obviously have a very different idea of what master is than a lot of people.

 

[Sam]

IAMPETH's Master Penmen exemplify what a master is. Click on their photos and view the certificates each makes as proof of their eligibility.

Iampeth Master Penmen

 

[Beathard]

In the 1700s, 1800s and very early 1900s masters of many trades were in every major town. Master plumbers, master electricians, master jewelers and master engravers. I am sure most of those master engravers did not work at the level of the artists mentioned in this thread. I believe there is an attempt to redefine what a master engraver is... the fega scoring is only a 7 out of 10. That gives a lot of room for pruduction professionals doing over 100 guns a year as well as the artist doing jaw dropping work once or twice a year.

 

[Sam]

I believe there is an attempt to redefine what a master engraver is.

Yeah, it sounds to me like you prefer lower standards. Or do you want really high standards? Which is it?

We're in the golden age of hand engraving and the finest work the world has ever known is being done today. What's the point in a low standard of excellence? I don't get it. So more people can sport a master certificate on the wall? What does that accomplish? If anything it should be harder than ever to attain. That's my personal opinion. Anyone is free to disagree.

BTW, the number of guns someone engraves a year means absolutely nothing to me other than I'm happy for their success. For art's sake I'd rather see 1/2 of one masterfully engraved piece than 100 production level jobs.

 

[Beathard]

I believe that increasing the standards would be a valid option if all masters had to retest. If there is no retest, I guess you could put an asterix next to the names of the ones that received it under the lower standard. It would kind of look like the baseball record book with asterixes next to records due to smaller fields or longer seasons.

 

[Beathard]

Or you could create a grand master title for the guys that way out perform the normal masters. Masters could then test for that level as well.

 

[atexascowboy2011]

And after that, The Super Grand Masters ?

Funny thing about farrier work, we have had a sanctioned classification system in place for decades and in all of my time shoeing anything from miniature horses to World Class Polo ponies, not once has a customer asked for my certification.
The only times I did have someone ask what level I was it was always a backyard shoer, NEVER another highly skilled farrier or customer.

 

[Sam]

Many people are goal driven and attaining Master certification is a great goal, and there's nothing wrong with being acknowledged for doing superior work. Will you make more money because you have the certificate? Probably not if you're an engraver. If you're a master jeweler and you're seeking employment you might get a better salary just as you would if you're an accountant seeking employment and have a master's degree.

I guess you could put an asterix next to the names of the ones that received it under the lower standard

Putting an asterisk next to FEGA master's names to indicate they might be less of a master because of prior standards is ridiculous. Sorry Gerry. I don't get where you're going with this. If you want the certificate then suck it up and crank out some master class work. You can do it.

 

[JJ Roberts]

How about concentrating on mastering drawing go out of your way take class's in drawing take an engraving class,back in day we had no information like we have today.There were no class's had to sharpen your tools by hand no power hone made my engraving chisels form industrial hacksaw blades for H&C and hand push.Got some advice from Roy Vail gun builder & engraver,had to experiment and had to figure out things myself.Stay tune in to Sam's forum and take advantage of all the great tips & tricks and advice. J.J.

 

[Beathard]

So how would a customer differentiate between a low standards master certificate and a high standards master certificate?