spadebit
Member
Exceptionally pretty Barry. The blade affect you used is just killer. Art does not come any prettier than that.
Barry Lee Hands engraved Ron Lake with the all new "Burnished Blade" technique
- Thread starter Barry Lee Hands
- Start date
Barry Lee Hands
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thanks Titian, and Spade. . . .
Yes Sam, Churchill is tops, at least on this side of the pond, in my book.
As to the finish, really, it's not too fragile.
As you know, the blade is 58 Rockwell, so in order to have a fragile finish, it is bumping against things it should not be bumped against, or it has too much tooth.
Assuming the metal is not unusually soft, he fragile finishes have too much tooth from blast, or stipple or rough polish, or the tiny rhombus of the bulino is cut in such a way as to leave tooth.
This surface is pretty darn flat, and it is on hardened blades, so, it is reasonably tough.
The rougher the finsh, the easier it scratches, thats why I prefer a high polish knife or gun to do my layout, just going to 400, or even 600 finish on best quality work may not be enough, I prefer 1000, or even better, machine polish by an expert.
In the old days I have been told, all best quality guns (Boss, Purdey, etc) were burnished for the last step in polishing. Unfortunately it is so time consuming, almost no one follows that route, that I am aware of, today.
The reason the design in this work is seen so clearly is the highlights and the bright parts are burnished nearly to mirror finish and that gives the contrasts.
Lee Helgeland, an American Custom Gunmakers Guild member was here looking at it, and he said it looked like there were light bulbs under some of the leaves.
While I am pleased with this technique and am enjoying it, if we focus on the "how" too much, we may overlook the "why".
Perhaps the simplicity of the layout is key to the impact of this piece.
By Simple, I don't mean Simpleton, I mean self similar.
I am attempting to achieve this conveyance of emotional temper by self similarity through leaf design and the "Inductive layout" I spoke of elsewhere.
Great Art posesses and conveys emotional impact. and if there are too many dissimilar things going on, even if they are all clever and inventive, it reduces the impact of the underlying emotional temper.
At least that is my perception this week.
Yes Sam, Churchill is tops, at least on this side of the pond, in my book.
As to the finish, really, it's not too fragile.
As you know, the blade is 58 Rockwell, so in order to have a fragile finish, it is bumping against things it should not be bumped against, or it has too much tooth.
Assuming the metal is not unusually soft, he fragile finishes have too much tooth from blast, or stipple or rough polish, or the tiny rhombus of the bulino is cut in such a way as to leave tooth.
This surface is pretty darn flat, and it is on hardened blades, so, it is reasonably tough.
The rougher the finsh, the easier it scratches, thats why I prefer a high polish knife or gun to do my layout, just going to 400, or even 600 finish on best quality work may not be enough, I prefer 1000, or even better, machine polish by an expert.
In the old days I have been told, all best quality guns (Boss, Purdey, etc) were burnished for the last step in polishing. Unfortunately it is so time consuming, almost no one follows that route, that I am aware of, today.
The reason the design in this work is seen so clearly is the highlights and the bright parts are burnished nearly to mirror finish and that gives the contrasts.
Lee Helgeland, an American Custom Gunmakers Guild member was here looking at it, and he said it looked like there were light bulbs under some of the leaves.
While I am pleased with this technique and am enjoying it, if we focus on the "how" too much, we may overlook the "why".
Perhaps the simplicity of the layout is key to the impact of this piece.
By Simple, I don't mean Simpleton, I mean self similar.
I am attempting to achieve this conveyance of emotional temper by self similarity through leaf design and the "Inductive layout" I spoke of elsewhere.
Great Art posesses and conveys emotional impact. and if there are too many dissimilar things going on, even if they are all clever and inventive, it reduces the impact of the underlying emotional temper.
At least that is my perception this week.
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Sam, maybe you could explain further about burnishing. You say that you "burnished-in the backround stems and leaves . . .". Are you fading them or another way of putting it erasing? 'ghosting?
In jewelry terms burnishing is more like polishing. I use a steel burnisher with spit applying a lot of pressure. It's very time consuming but results in a harder finish and a 'look' that one can't get by any other method that I know of.
Kevin P.
In jewelry terms burnishing is more like polishing. I use a steel burnisher with spit applying a lot of pressure. It's very time consuming but results in a harder finish and a 'look' that one can't get by any other method that I know of.
Kevin P.
"By Simple, I don't mean Simpleton, I mean self similar.
I am attempting to achieve this conveyance of emotional temper by self similarity through leaf design and the "Inductive layout" I spoke of elsewhere.
Great Art posesses and conveys emotional impact. and if there are too many dissimilar things going on, even if they are all clever and inventive, it reduces the impact of the underlying emotional temper."
Everything you said to this point made sense; but when one starts talking 'art' it's trouble. Either you get it or you don't.
No offense intended. Your work is sometimes beyond words and I have great respect for what you do. As in your quote "something new is not accomplished by the intellect . . . ."
Kevin P.
I am attempting to achieve this conveyance of emotional temper by self similarity through leaf design and the "Inductive layout" I spoke of elsewhere.
Great Art posesses and conveys emotional impact. and if there are too many dissimilar things going on, even if they are all clever and inventive, it reduces the impact of the underlying emotional temper."
Everything you said to this point made sense; but when one starts talking 'art' it's trouble. Either you get it or you don't.
No offense intended. Your work is sometimes beyond words and I have great respect for what you do. As in your quote "something new is not accomplished by the intellect . . . ."
Kevin P.
Barry Lee Hands
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Kevin, quite true, but if I may quote myself:
"If engraving is fine art, would it be a culturally literate art and thereby be discussed in ways which allow it to be intellectualized and appreciated by those who have a common knowledge of the arts? or the background which gives them understanding of the common language of art? without the requirement of being an artist themselves?
If it is Art, should we not speak of it in the language of art?"
From "Prolegomena to the study of firearms as fine art", originally published in
Engraver magazine.
I can't recall what issue that was.
I might add, if we cannot, then it is merely craft.
"If engraving is fine art, would it be a culturally literate art and thereby be discussed in ways which allow it to be intellectualized and appreciated by those who have a common knowledge of the arts? or the background which gives them understanding of the common language of art? without the requirement of being an artist themselves?
If it is Art, should we not speak of it in the language of art?"
From "Prolegomena to the study of firearms as fine art", originally published in
Engraver magazine.
I can't recall what issue that was.
I might add, if we cannot, then it is merely craft.
Kevin: If I get time I'll try to make some examples and start a new thread. I don't want to hijack Barry's.
Barry: We enjoy the discussion, but many of us have are also very much interested in the mechanics and how-to part.
~Sam
Barry: We enjoy the discussion, but many of us have are also very much interested in the mechanics and how-to part. -Sam
I add my voice to Sam's; the how-to and the mechanics part is most interesting. The philosophy or aesthetics part has been debated since 'art' became a word.
I might add, if we cannot, then it is merely craft. -Barry
I don't agree and we might have a very interesting discussion on that topic: What is Art.
But there are probably very few who would be interested in that topic so acknowledging Sam's hint we can all share in the how-to part and just wonder at your genius.
Kevin P.
I add my voice to Sam's; the how-to and the mechanics part is most interesting. The philosophy or aesthetics part has been debated since 'art' became a word.
I might add, if we cannot, then it is merely craft. -Barry
I don't agree and we might have a very interesting discussion on that topic: What is Art.
But there are probably very few who would be interested in that topic so acknowledging Sam's hint we can all share in the how-to part and just wonder at your genius.
Kevin P.
FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
OK Barry
I just have to say something that is bugging me about the layout and design. Mind you it is purely a personal opinion and has nothing to do with the overall expertise of the engraving.
I find the rope gold border distracting. It seems to want to pull my eyes attention away from the leaves and flow of the piece. I would have just made it a simple gold line either raised or flush.
Like I said this is just my opinion of a knife I admire.
Marty
I just have to say something that is bugging me about the layout and design. Mind you it is purely a personal opinion and has nothing to do with the overall expertise of the engraving.
I find the rope gold border distracting. It seems to want to pull my eyes attention away from the leaves and flow of the piece. I would have just made it a simple gold line either raised or flush.
Like I said this is just my opinion of a knife I admire.
Marty
Barry Lee Hands
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I am attempting to achieve this conveyance of emotional temper by self similarity .
Great Art posesses and conveys emotional impact. and if there are too many dissimilar things going on, even if they are all clever and inventive, it reduces the impact of the underlying emotional temper.
Marty, that's an excellent comment, and may link to what I was saying about emotional temper.
The rope is not self similar to the rest of the design, and does not convey the same emotional impact as the rest of the piece, and therefore, jumps out at you.
What do you think?
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Barry Lee Hands
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thank you for all the comments gentlemen, I find the discussion very interesting, and after all a forum is a place to gather to publicly discuss matters of interest of those gathered together.
Hi Kevin, Perhaps I expressed myself poorly.
My use of inductive layout is not philosophy, but an entirely mechanical process.
Using words like "inductive" and "deductive" are ways to convey the idea of different ways to layout a design, not phillosophy.
Inductive layout is just as mechanical as deductive, and if one does not intellectualize the differences, it's hard to know what we are doing, or why.
And as to Aesthetics, I can hardly improve on the aesthetics of a clean, untouched Ron Lake, SR Johnson or Steve Hoel knife.
They are aesthetically perfect from the maker.
I can however, use them as a conduit to convey my emotions.
When I pick up a pencil to create a design, I can use a deductive traditional approach like drawing one scroll linked to the next, or inductive, where the leaves are scattered first.
This is what will provide the main concept for the emotional content, my original sketch, whether drawn on paper, or drawn directly on the knife.
I did not intend to debate what is art, as it is fairly clear to me.
Art is the coveyence of emotion.
Technique, always changes, and to me is one of the less interesting aspects, design is what allows us to convey emotion, technique is just a tool.
And no matter what you think art is, there is a language of the arts used across all the arts, literature, the stage, painting and sculpting to name a few.
As I see it there is the structure of the Arts; that is anything generally recognized by art by anyone.
We can divide that into movements and tempers, classicism, neoclassicism, expressionism, cub ism, all the isms.
I and further subdivide into schools, an example would be the florentine school of renaissance painting.
Or the Parisian school of expressionism.
Or the MacKenzie school of victorian ornamental engraving, or the Lindsay school of postmodern arabesque.
I know these ways of looking at thing some people find boorish, or obtuse.
But I find it fascinating.
And useful
I really don't know any other why to speak of the Arts.
At least, thats how it looks to me this week.
Hi Kevin, Perhaps I expressed myself poorly.
My use of inductive layout is not philosophy, but an entirely mechanical process.
Using words like "inductive" and "deductive" are ways to convey the idea of different ways to layout a design, not phillosophy.
Inductive layout is just as mechanical as deductive, and if one does not intellectualize the differences, it's hard to know what we are doing, or why.
And as to Aesthetics, I can hardly improve on the aesthetics of a clean, untouched Ron Lake, SR Johnson or Steve Hoel knife.
They are aesthetically perfect from the maker.
I can however, use them as a conduit to convey my emotions.
When I pick up a pencil to create a design, I can use a deductive traditional approach like drawing one scroll linked to the next, or inductive, where the leaves are scattered first.
This is what will provide the main concept for the emotional content, my original sketch, whether drawn on paper, or drawn directly on the knife.
I did not intend to debate what is art, as it is fairly clear to me.
Art is the coveyence of emotion.
Technique, always changes, and to me is one of the less interesting aspects, design is what allows us to convey emotion, technique is just a tool.
And no matter what you think art is, there is a language of the arts used across all the arts, literature, the stage, painting and sculpting to name a few.
As I see it there is the structure of the Arts; that is anything generally recognized by art by anyone.
We can divide that into movements and tempers, classicism, neoclassicism, expressionism, cub ism, all the isms.
I and further subdivide into schools, an example would be the florentine school of renaissance painting.
Or the Parisian school of expressionism.
Or the MacKenzie school of victorian ornamental engraving, or the Lindsay school of postmodern arabesque.
I know these ways of looking at thing some people find boorish, or obtuse.
But I find it fascinating.
And useful
I really don't know any other why to speak of the Arts.
At least, thats how it looks to me this week.
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FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Like i said Barry, to put it in your words, the rope does just jump out at you and that is what I find distracting as conflicting with the harmony and flow of the other elements. But you are the artist and if that is what you wanted to achieve, you accomplished that.
vanknife
Elite Cafe Member
Barry this is just stunning. Picture perfect
Cheers
"VAN"
Cheers
"VAN"
Here is a Ron Lake, with the all new "Burnished Blade" technique, yellow gold leaves , rose gold stems, rose gold rope border with sculpted steel leaves and stippled and inked backgound.
Thanks to Ron P. and Kirby for help in locating the canvas.
You can also see it at Paul Shindler's Knife Legends:
http://www.knifelegends.com/homepage.htm
:thumbs up::thumbs up::thumbs up:
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