Ball Vise Problem

[Michael Orticelli]

I have a low profile positioning vise that I purchased from GRS about 4 months ago, and was very happy with it although I can only practice here and there and not often, so the vise has been used very little so far.

The problem I am having is that without having opened it up before, it one day (keep in mind this is without having used it since the last time it worked just fine) it had this horrible grinding and sticking feeling in the swivel action.

I took the top off and removed the bearing plate, cleaned both top and bottom race very well, and sprayed out the bearings with wd-40, then used my steam cleaner to blow everything out of them. I checked them and couldn't find any debris. So I packed them with Lithium grease and reassembled the vise, only to have the very same problem.

I called GRS and of course they will replace the vise, but it seems like alot of wasted effort for both me and the company to send this heavy tool back if it is just a simple thing to fix.

If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it. I think I am going to try the same process again and see if cleaning it out works the second time. I would prefer not to send it back but it really is a noticable hesitation and it will stick in the middle of a spin which of course disrupts the line. The strangest thing is that the vise was completely unused from the last time when it worked flawlessly, I go to use it again after a week or so and it feels like someone put sand in my bearings...

Weird. Thanks!
Michael

 

[pilkguns]

have you played with the drag screw? I can't imagine it being something in the bearings especially after you have cleaned them again. But maybe the drag screw is just enough in that its catching on something?

I don't have any expereince with it really because my low profile and others are either locked down or welded together, and I use a disc below to do the rotation.

 

[Michael Orticelli]

Scott,

I adjusted the screw, even removed it to test the effect, and it didn't do anything for the prob.

(btw, do you modify your vise for the sake of a wider area for centering?)

Thanks, m

 

[Sam]

Michael: I've experienced a similar problem, but it was only after a vise had been handled roughly during transport to a trade show. If the crown slips up and slams back down on the base, it could damage or bend the bearing. If this is the case, replacing the bearing should cure the problem. Also check the drag screw per Scott's suggestion, and make sure there are no burs or chips anywhere inside the vise. Vises don't suddenly go bad, so whatever's up with yours should be a fast and easy fix. / ~Sam
p.s. Did you talk to JB Taylor at GRS?

 

[Michael Orticelli]

Sam, Scott, thanks for the advice. The vise didn't get moved or bumped at all so it just has to be something in there, I agree it has to be something really simple. I have dealt with Aaron with all my purchases, and he seems to know quite a bit about the tools as he uses them himself. I will try meticulously cleaning it a second time, and maybe have GRS just send a new bearing if the prob persists.

Thanks again,
Michael

 

[KSnyder]

Mike , I can tell you, give you one tip, don't ever used compressed air or a steam cleaner on bearings of any type , it will eventually ruin them even if repacked with grease. Once a bearing is "spun" it can/ will bugger up the race ,necklace & balls or rollers even though you may not be able to see it. The saving grace here is that a bearing on a ball vise turns ever so slowly compared to other applications.
Like Sam says, bearings just don't give up the ghost, I'd bet you got somethin' stuck in there & it don't have to be very big to cause havoc.
You can wash them (bearings)out in clean mineral spirits & repack with grease, you want to completely submerge them to get all the chips,old grease & grit out. This may do the trick.
Btw, some bearings fly apart when spun with compressed air.
hope this helps ,
Kent

 

[thekoabenchgoldsmith]

Aloha Michael,
With my first magna block years back I suddenly had a grinding feel in the vise's action. I thought the same... must be some sort of grit or something in it. After cleaning it out like you did, Michael, it still didn't turn smooth. Turned out the bearing was cracked. Couldn't figure out how it happened, as like you, I couldn't remember it being dropped or treated harshly at all. And at about 40 pounds, if it had fallen from my bench everyone in the building would have known. Also, I couldn't see any evidence that it had been dropped...no dings or anything. I called GRS and explained about it. They were willing to send a new bearing (gratis, if I remember rightly) but it would have taken a week or so and the cost at a bearing supply was just a few dollars so I took the broken one and got a new one using the numbers on the race. After it was replaced everything was fine.

Don't know if that helps, but that was my experience.

I would also make sure to clean out all the moisture if you use the steam cleaner again. Once you button the thing back up any residual moisture from the steam cleaning would be trapped. The grease may surround it enough to keep the metal safe but that would be a thin guarantee, I think.

Aloha,
Robert Booth
The Koa Bench Goldsmith

 

[thekoabenchgoldsmith]

Thats good information about compressed air and bearings, Kent, thanks for including it in your post.

reb

 

[Doc Mark]

Kent,

I didn't know about not using compressed air on bearings! I find my GRS turntable "sticking" every now and then. I don't know if you can take these apart, as I have mine mounted to a pedestal. I've been blowing air from my compressor through the gap between the metal plates and it only partially helps the rotation smoothness. It always seems to stick at the most critical spot of the design! Naturally! Do you, or any others here, have a solution to the problem?

Mark

 

[monk]

as a last resort get your buns, i mean your bearings to an ultrasonic cleaner. it may be possible the vibrations may jar that little bugger loose. sam is right, esp. for a bearing that gets the little abuse that the ball vise bearing gets- they don't just suddenly go awry. gotta be a little bugger in there somewhere. ultrasonic cleaning might do the trick. every minute or so move each individual bearing part to assist this little beast leaving town.

 

[monk]

i bought a used grs turntable. i love it. at first i thought it was really a clunker. come to find out, the person shipping it to me used shredded newspaper as packing material.. some of the paper had worked its' way between the plates and into the bearings. real bad scenario. i finally figured what was wrong, and the paper eventually worked out of the bearing surfaces.

 

[jimzim75]

Hi Doc Marc,
I have had the same problem your having with the positioning vice, sticking. I have two positioning vice and they both
suffer form the same problem. I thought they might eventually weir in, or that might be that the humidity in the air.
I separated the two halves to inspect what was going on. No luck, the mechanism is sealed. I really don't feel like
trying to take them apart for something that I thought would go away. When I took a class at GRS there vices didn't stick
at all. I figured it was that they were used so often. I too would like to hear any solutions to this problem.

Jim

 

[Billzach]

Jim, i inserted a washer at the bottom of the hole where the bearing sits on my grs positioning vise, i found there wasn,t enough clearance between halves which make it hard to turn...It,s been a few years since i fixed my vise, but i remember i had to get the washer the right thickness, too thick a bearing will give your vise a wobble..I cleaned my bearings two or three times before i added the washer and it didn,t help..[ps] remember too thick a washer will make your vise wobble..

 

[jimzim75]

Hi Billzack,
Thank for the suggestion. I think, I didn't exactly state the problem correctly, though. My problem is that when I pull
the positioning trigger, it will not release the vice. It stay center on the spot I was working on last. The only thing that
works is to tug back and forth with the trigger pulled to get it to change position. It does it on both my ball vices.
I shouldn't have to do this. If there was an adjustment that could be made like loosening the spring or increasing the
amount of separation with a shim. This part of the vice is not accessible. So what do you do?
Jim

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Doc the turntables come apart. There's a retainer clip on the bottom. You can take that off and it comes apart don't oil the bearings just clean them and use a fine micro paper to polish the bearing track. Some old timer on this forum told me how to do this I think his name is Sam If you droped the vise on it you may have flattened a few bearings, as they are like a Teflon type material.

 

[Billzach]

Jim
The only time my trigger won,t release and let the vise move about is when i,ve the rotation tension tighened all the way..

 

[Doc Mark]

Mike,

Thanks for the info! I'll dismount the turntable and take it apart. I better do this is a box because I can already see all those little bearings scattered all over the shop! Has anyone tried to make a "skirt" of flexible plastic around the upper, outside edge of the turntable to help keep chips and dirt out of the bearings?

Mark

 

[Sam]

I've been using the turntable base since it came out, and have never had trouble with dirt or chips in the bearings. But my studio isn't dusty, so I think that helps. It would be easy enough to make a skirt to keep dust out if that's a problem.

After you remove the retainer, seperate the two turntable halves and try not to lose any of the nylon ball bearings. You can improve turntable performance by smoothing and polishing the bearing tracks with Scotchbrite. Clean thoroughly and reassemble.

 

[jimzim75]

Hi Doc Marc,
So, I took apart both positioning vices. The old one has a bearing and the race. I love this vice. The new one
has a white plastic skid disc or bearing if want to call it that. The white plastic drags when making a cut. I call GRS
and ask about getting a real bearing. They still sell them. Since there is no room for the race or Thrust washer.
I will simple use the vice surfaces. I tried this out with bearing from my old vice and it works.

Taking apart the trigger and adjusting it wasn't a bad as I thought it would be. I did find out about not using to much
oil on the thrust washer. This make to it stick a bit. I clean this oil off and now it work great.

Jim

 

[Daniel Houwer]

Monk is right, but I would not use it as last resort.
I allways clean my bearings in a jar of petrol or alcohol in the ultrasonic cleaner.
When the liquid gets to murky replace it an give the bearings a spin every minute or so. Takes about 5 minutes.

Oops, mist a page, this should be at the end of the first page,