Bad Brass Ideas?

[Beathard]

I am working on a cheap Uberti that has a cast brass backstrap. It was one of my first guns and I mutilated it. Now it's back to haunt me. We have purchased a new backstrap. I made a test cut and its the same bad brass.

The major problem is the cast brass comes off in flakes. Any ideas on how to minimize this?

I am supposed to do a large JK brand where the uprights of the letters are shared. I'm thinking slight bevel with a flat stippled bottom filled with black will give the best result

 

[mitch]

warn the client of the impending difficulties and keep young impressionable children out of earshot?

 

[Beathard]

Exactly...!

 

[monk]

i cant recall ever cutting any cast brass that was worthy of ones' efforts. as for the gun, forewarn the client and do your best. one cant expect more than that. as for after the fact, about anything that i'd do-- try a bit of burnishing here and there to make the bad spots a bit less noticeable.

 

[Dave London]

Would help If you had a friend with a laser welder, or someone with TIG. Fill and file recut? Can be done with a torch and rod but much harder and possibilities or warping. Since you have two this is what I would try. Good luck

 

[Red Green]

I may be out of line (would that surprise anyone?) but I have cut brass but only cartridge and 360 brass. It was not much fun but it did not flake. Does anyone know how deep the brass is flaking, has anyone carved into it? Most metal will smear when polished aggressively could this be the problem? It will work harden on the surface leaving softer metal under it. This also happens when stamping out a part, have you tried annealing the part? The 360 brass was rolled so it had a very even hardness the part you are working on I doubt was annealed after the process of its manufacture, it may be worth a try.

Bob

 

[Brian Marshall]

Cartridge brass and rolled brass sheet have been worked. And annealed and worked again. And annealed and worked again. And annealed and worked again.

In the process of working (forging or rolling), the microscopic voids and gaps in the rough ingot get compressed. Over and over.

By the time you get to the finished product all the lil' crystals are sweetly lined up and organized.

On the other hand look at some cast brass under high enough magnification and it can resemble Swiss cheese.

Therein lies the problem. (For those of you using newspeak - the "issue")


Brian

 

[Red Green]

So you feel annealing would be of no use? ( I thought Newspeak went out of business, which issue is it in? )

Bob

 

[Marrinan]

Rotary tool? Fred

 

[Brian Marshall]

If it is a brass casting it cannot be annealed further by its very nature. Cast silver and gold are in an annealed state as well. They go from molten liquid to a "loose" crystal solid state.

And stay there.

Until worked by forging, or rolling.

It could, however, have been cast using a denser/more engraver friendly alloy. The manufacturer chose otherwise.



If he had said that simple porosity was the problem - then I might've suggested a rotary burnisher, which is fairly simple to make & use.

It compacts the surface enough sometimes for light engraving to look smooth. Mashes the surface crystals down a bit.

But, he said "flaking"... and I've seen that.

And I haven't heard of a remedy for that one yet. Some alloys jsut do that.

I try to pick ones that don't, but the manufacturer probably picked one for ease of casting.

Some pick them solely for price or color. Just get it out the door and get the money.



Redgreen, I am from a generation that survived quite well without inventing new terminology for old situations.

A problem is just that - a problem - I have no idea why it is now called an "issue". Nor do I use the word in my conversation. I offered it for those who do.

I am not fond of new terms like "Human" Resources either. It seems to imply that we may someday have "Alien" Resources...

And I have absolutely no use for "politically correct" terms.

Nor "tweets", nor *ssbook, nor texting - with what will become the standard garbled language of the next generation.

Bein' available 24/7 is NOT on my list of important things to have in my life.

I refuse to converse whilst sitting in the throne room. Some things are still sacred to me.


Amazingly, little things like spelling are still kinda important to me. (That's why I learned to spell "ain't" properly)

Do you know that handwriting will no longer be taught in grade schools in California? It is now considered a waste of time...

As is history, geography, spelling and math.

Everyone (supposedly) has, and makes use of their spel chucker & calkulater. And googles the rest when they need it. Why bother learning it?

It's late, and I'm tired. Been on this rant long enough!


B.

 

[Beathard]

The metal is definitely flaking. As you push the graver trough it never develops a bur. It just pops round flakes off ahead of the graver.

 

[Brian Marshall]

There's always that last resort...

Pick the proper moon phase, light some black candles and incense...


B.

 

[Red Green]

Brian, can I have a turn on that soapbox? Seriously, I'm an old codger myself, I too miss the old world. The simple freedom of walking to the corner in peace, but those days are gone. I can now understand the old folks when as a child they seemed so out of place. Don't let the world pass you by it's real hard to catch up, I for one am not ready to see only backwards. Perhaps you should recommend they add handwriting to the art classes, I remember using pen and ink in school think the kids today would like that?

Bob

 

[Brian Marshall]

Yep, yer on camera if'n yer hangin' 'round street corners - walking OR driving!

String starts runnin' out and ya have to choose... do I wanna be on *ssbook or do I wanna do something important - like make a first class meal from scratch and eat it or maybe just lie on the floor in a pile of dogs. I will always choose the latter two options.

And no matter what, I ain't answerin' the damn phone in the throneroom!

Or in my bed, or my car - while I'm tryin' to dodge all the idiots that ARE on their cellphones.

(Yes, I own a cellphone. I use it to make phonecalls when I'm away from home - which isn't often these days)

What art classes? The ones they've been cutting right and left 'cause the congressmen and senators have more important things to **** away money on?

Mebee it's true. The older you get - the crankier you get. Because you've seen too much of it...


B.


I was out riding a bike sometime back and there was a kid, maybe 10 years old, riding out maybe 20 yards in front of me.

He was busy texting.

Slammed right into a tree.

I almost fell offa MY bike, laughing so hard!

Don't get me started on "multitasking"...

 

[Red Green]

Maybe we should start a why has the world gone to .... instead of hijacking Beathard's thread. But while I'm here, you can tell how old you are when your greatest interests are food and a pile of dogs instead of a lady, you've lived long enough to know she has no intention of making you happy but the dogs will do anything they can to do so.

bob

 

[Brian Marshall]

I answered the questions as best I could earlier on. Black candles and juju may work?


I am not a Luddite.

Modern technology is great stuff. I DO own quite a bit of it and I use it too.

Unfortunately humans don't seem to be to keeping up with it - in the judgement and common sense categories.


I will bet that the brass that started this thread was chosen by the manufacturer for it's price, color, or ease of casting. Maybe all 3.

For a few pennies more it could have been made of an alloy that engraved like a dream.

Not the way our world runs anymore...


B.

 

[Red Green]

Look back as far as you can humans have never shown much common sense. Seems like every chance we get we chose the wrong path. Just think what the monkeys would do if they had paradise to destroy. Whoops

Bob

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Try a polished heel, low face angle of about 40 or even 35 degrees and a lubricating oil. Also turn down the power on the machine so it's less than a hammering action and more of a vibrating action which will give you a less powerful stroke..............if none of that works then chalk it up to experience for the next time you get one of these guns. S#$T happens and some days there is nothing you can do about it.

The metal is what it is so be honest with the client and tell him what the deal is with the metal.

Cheers
Andrew

P.S. I wouldn't try annealing or anything like that unless you really know what you are about. You could/will make a bad situation worse and could end up warping the metal or making even worse to cut.

 

[DKanger]

Unless I am mistaken, those castings are silicon bronze, not brass. It is used by a number of manufacturers in the muzzleloading business. You can't anneal them. Trigger guards and buttplates will break before bending if you try to reshape them. It's stronger than brass, doesn't dent as easily, holds a polish well, etc. Only a very few small, independent businesses provide soft brass castings to the ML industry today.

 

[silverchip]

I used to engrave a few tomahawks for a guy that made them at his foundry,They were definitely S.Bronze and I soon gave it up because it was a freakin nightmare to engrave.Not my favorite medium!!!!!! Brian is correct in that it sure wouldn't take much for them to make them out of something that is easier to engrave for a few pennies more. Sorry that you have to put up with this crap just to make a customer happy!!!