Critique Request Anyone got any advice or comments for me? All appreciated.

[Dani Girl]

Just wandering if anyone out there likes what I've done... has any suggestions for how I could improve, or wishes to share some of their own work or experience?

On another note... judging from these engravings would anyone like to rate where I'm at? I am curious what level I am at in the eyes of my fellow engravers. Beginner, Intermediate... i don't have to go on. Would I get into an Intermediate class or a master class or would i hinder other students?

Any comments or discussion welcome. Thankyou.
Danae.

 

[Dani Girl]

Please take into consideration I don't have a microscope and do most of my work with naked eye. Fine line shading is quite an artform to perfect. I admire those who have mastered it.
Danae

 

[Brian Marshall]

I don't think you are gonna hinder other students... at either level.

You obviously know your way around a bit.

And by simply asking these questions, you've put yourself out way ahead of most.


Brian

 

[billrice@charter.net]

very nice work and with out a scope you must have good eye site the master engravers in the past did not use scopes I love looking at past engravings of the 1800's I have seen allot of older items that were hand engraved made of silver and gold like watches and silver plates that have lately been turned in for scrap to melt down What a loss I am starting to buy some of these items just to collect and preserve. I have found though that the best engraving training I have received is a one on one or where there is only a few students then who ever I am studying with is able to focus on my areas where I need to improve or a new method to learn. I feel that I am not at a level yet that I would be able to engrave anything at a masters level however If I had the money to go to the masters get together at GRS I would do it with out hesitation.
Keep engraving and improving.

 

[silverchip]

Hey Dani, I'd say that is pretty nice for working without any magnification. You should be proud of your progress and keep going. Just think of the first ten years as beginning to get good at it,don't stop trying to improve!!!

 

[BrianPowley]

Asking "where you're at" could turn out to be a bit controversial, but I'm not familiar with your experience--so pardon me in advance.
I'll assume you are fairly new to the craft.
I like what I see and nothing pops out as a big "NO-NO!!"
Obviously more advanced than a beginner and any intermediate class can only make you better.
(Actually, if you've never had any formal instruction, even a beginner class is extremely valuable to experienced hands.)
Your work shows enough promise, you'll have a seat in the market place pretty soon--if that's your desire.
As Don Glaser would say, "Keep scratchin'."

 

[rod]

Dani,

As all agree, you are doing well, and have a keen eye. Remember that it does not cost much to get a few Optivisors at different magnifications, unless you want to test your skills to see where you can reach with the unaided eye.

As a critique directed at improvement, I would say that, like many cutters, by the time you have done background relief, all evidence of crisp outline of your elements has pretty well been eliminated, and the outline devolves to a somewhat jagged and uneven cliff edge. It is important to maintain a good boundary, defining crisp distinction between background and elements like leaves and scroll backbones.

All of these points are very clearly looked at in Sam Alfano's DVD tutorial, where he takes us step by step through the whole process of a knife bolster engraving. It is a huge bargain, and may be downloaded online. Sam shows just how well element boundaries can be maintained crisp edged and given a three dimensional look by leaning the graver slope inwards and slightly varying width in what we call a 'beauty cut', and how to go about protecting that line as we do background removal, to leave your design beautifully outlined. All stages are demonstrated from drawing through fine shading.

Keep posting!

Rod

 

[Eugene Carkoski]

I like what I see , take it to the next level

 

[JJ Roberts]

Dani, Your on a roll keep posting we want to see more. J.J.

 

[Dani Girl]

Thankyou all for your comments

I do admit my side walls, beauty cuts, I try to cut as well as i can but then when i go back for the backgrounding I tend to carve them all to pieces. I will try to take more care next time.

Hey... I'm starting to get slightly achey wrists. I've heard of carpel tunnels and rsi and lots of problems people have with their wrists who do repedative tasks like this. Can anyone advise on how to prolong the life of my limbs. I'm turning 22 soon and am working engraving script for a living and it's starting to become noticable. I ruined the ligaments in my shoulders doing my last job.

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

well I am 58 now and have been having trouble with my hands for several years. I have classic carpal tunnel. I just had surgery on my right hand and will go next week for the left. After 2 years of numb fingers I figured it was time. the reason I decided to do it was because my grip was getting weak. this was confirmed by testing at the neurologist.

Good news is the surgery is easy and I was able to use the had to engrave in three days. The numbness is improving for sure and the pain is gone.


Chris

 

[Brian Marshall]

If you are doing all of your engraving by hand pushing and having problems with your wrists this early, you might want to look into one of the power-assisted tools?

My own story includes 20+ years of push engraving, mostly the long bright and liner cuts used in our "Western" style of engraving on silver.

That eventually cost me 5 carpal tunnel surgeries, 2 elbow releases and a shoulder surgery...

Were it not for the power-assisted tools and the microscope giving me a new set of eyes - I would have been forced to quit long ago.

These two tools added another 24 years of productive work.


Brian

 

[rod]

Danae,

A few other thoughts, if you are starting to get aches and pains at age 21, and with a long career ahead of you, it is a good time to now look closely at your work bench set up, perhaps even post a photo of it, as there are a lot of generous engravers who can share on pretty much every aspect of engraving, including aches and pains, as Chris just has. You wrote that you are engraving script for a living, are you doing hand push on silver, with no air assist, and are you maybe using hammer and chisel if you engrave steel? Are you hunched over the workpiece as you engrave, or can you work with more upright posture. Again, on the forum we have doctors and other posture experienced members who will often advise.

By the way, I am sure it would be nice to see some of your script? That is as demanding as it gets.

Another thought, regarding naked eye engraving, we have museums and private collections filled with fabulous engraving work done before the idea of microscopes came along, and many world class masters who do top flight work, especially bulino, using only a 9x lupe, with about a 20 mm diameter lens.

Another thought, regardless of whether magnification is used or not, we all still have to use those big ol' hands to do tiny work with good control at tool point. So it is an interesting exercise to do a small practice piece with naked eye, then see if you can borrow a little time with an engraving microscope, and repeat the practice. It is sometimes the case with us older folks, that hand control diminishes with the march of time, ahead of poor vision, but not always. There are enthusiasts for all the different approaches on this forum, and I will let others weigh in.

You will find lots of threads on background removal while maintaining good definition of elements, but briefly, Sam's advice is to do that 'beauty' cut outline of the elements, graver leaning in, then with the graver leaning out, do a second border cut around your first one that creates a sort of safety ditch distance from the real edge, then do your background removal without going all the way up to the real edge. Get that DVD.... seeing is believing!

best wishes!

Rod

 

[Chujybear]

Good ergonomics is crucial. Cutting shouldn't be that hard, but the hours still wear on you.
I forget if you said you had a ball vise. If not, that's pretty helpfull in relieving your non-cutting hand.

Rubbing. I have a few buckles that have developed lumps. I now recognize the onset pain, and rub the area. Idly, whenever I think of it. Walking, on breaks, falling to sleep. I have staved off this development three times now. This was advice i took from an elderly lady who told me she fixed her arthritis in her knees and hips, by doing this in the tub.

Isometrics. Using your muscles in exactly the opposite way that they are being conditioned for by engraving
So, engraving: hand closed, back(possibly) hunched, shoulders curled forward.
Isometric exercise: (for example)- back to wall 6-12" out depending (start w short distance) , shoulders back, back straight, head straight , feet on ground flat and a foot apart,
Keeping weight balanced across feet lean back catching yourself on arms (arms are spread slightly at hip level). Your hans should be open and engaged, lined up with your arms.
You should be able to hold your weight up pretty easily w your fingertips. Letting you focus on allieghnment .. Eight breaths.
It's way easier to do than it is to write. Lol.
I set an egg timer by my bench so I get up to stretch and do some range of motion every half hour.

There are enough engravers in the world, there should be an occupational therapist dedicated to the profession.

Go to see an rmt when you can afford it

 

[monk]

i simply like your work very much. i definetly like to see some background included in such work. i also like the textural effect you have here.as to your standing amongst those who do this work, i really don't consider myself qualified to address that issue. as far as it goes-- who cares ? you do nice work- if you enjoy what you do, and moreover-- if your clients are happy-- congratulations are in order-- you've won a rather difficult game to play. thanks for posting.

 

[BrianPowley]

Wow! I feel blessed. I'm 55 years old, been engraving for 32 years---the last 12 years on a full time basis. I sit and engrave 8-12 ours a day and nothing on me hurts.

 

[Dani Girl]

Sorry everyone, I should satisfy the curiosity of my friends with some actual information. I engrave script for a living by using a rotary electrical handpiece with the ring, bracelet, or just about anything, sat on my knee and i put my feet up a little and hunch over to do the work. I just find this the most secure and steady position... i'm self taught at just about everything so I pick up my own bad habbits no one else has thought of. That's mostly what causes me to have the ache in my wrists.
My chisel engraving setup consists of a micro-ball vice, a palm control power assist graver, and I have recently added a 300,000rpm air rotary tool. The later of which I am finding handy for work because I can actually engrave deeply into hard steel when required with less effort.
The shoulder injuries I didn't even see coming, it was just a slow gradual increase in irritation. I was maybe 13-14 when i started to notice a little, by 19-20 I decided the shoulders wouldn't hold out much longer and changed occupations. My shoulders ache a little, creak like they have gravel in them when i roll them over, and pop when i lift my arms.
At work I am either hunched over an engraving job or hunched in front of a computer typing. My neck has been feeling stiff for the last couple of years.

 

[John P. Anderson]

Sometimes the best thing to do for repetitive task pain is to take a break and heal up. Then come back to work from a new angle be whatever the job.

Take it from someone that has had about as many surgeries as you have years that surgeries should always be the very last choice in therapy. They can never make you new again. It's much better to try all the alternatives. Ergonomics, work habits, break habits, eat your vegetables and get plenty of sleep. And don't wreck your motorcycle. Your just getting started in life and healthy body makes the later years far more enjoyable.

I actually use engraving as a form of chronic pain control. Highly focused task keep the body from focusing on the pain. It's the same little mental trick that allows use to keep grinding away on our work ignoring the damage it's doing to our neck, shoulders and wrist. The best thing is to take regular small breaks. I'm on a long carving break at the moment because I developed a bit of tendinitises in my thumb. I'm using the time to work on new designs. Mostly I'm working on an UL aircraft so I can go flying this summer.

Look into Phil Coogan. I've always admired his daily routine. He takes a nice walk every day if I remember correctly.

Your carving looks great.

John

 

[Dani Girl]

Would you have any of those old masters' watches or really old engravings you could post pictures of? I'd be interested.

Regards,
Danae

 

[Dani Girl]

Thanks John, monk, and Brian for posting.

Thanks for the advice on Isometrics and breaking the routine... all great advice.


"Take it from someone that has had about as many surgeries as you have years that surgeries should always be the very last choice in therapy. They can never make you new again. It's much better to try all the alternatives. Ergonomics, work habits, break habits, eat your vegetables and get plenty of sleep. And don't wreck your motorcycle. Your just getting started in life and healthy body makes the later years far more enjoyable"

All sounding like good advice for sure. Thanks. I get where you're coming from, I guess I sort of use engraving as chronic pain control sort of a little bit, I'm sure it's not worth comparing but I get where you're coming from.

Dani Girl