Critique Request Another Scroll and Leaf Drawing

[Steve223]

Heres another Scroll and Leaf Drawing. I tried to fix the things sam pointed out in the last one. I sure hope yall dont get tired of me posting this stuff but i really want to get this down. I have one of Rons Scroll books and i need to get the other one. But any way You guys have helped me a bunch and i appercaite it.
Steve

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Steve, in my opinion there is a lot wrong with your design.
I suggest you restart reading Ron's book. All the answers are there.

I show you one basic mistake, but there are more.

When you draw the backbone and than ad some leaves, the leaves start the wide of the stem, and as they re-enter the stem they take about half the size of the stem.

All lines have do be a bit parallel to one another. The stem also has to be smaller at the end. Like a tree, at the base it is thicker than at the end.

You also have to respect the equal leave mass and equal background space.

Someone else can probably explain it better than me, as I have a language barrier an still a novice myself.

arnaud

 

[Sam]

Yes, Arnaud is correct. This is a problem area of this layout.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Steve, be aware of the shape, direction and proportion of the leaves. Yours are virtually pointing forwards which makes shading very difficult. Also this type of leaf should be split into 3 parts of roughly equal mass so, if you think of a leaf being 100% the two outer parts are approx 30% each with a slightly bigger centre section of approx 40%.

Finally, the spiral in the centre should end up with a head in proportion to the leaves and tendrils and try not to leave too much blank space on the lead up to it or you'll end up with weird looking scrolls. As Arnaud says, there must be a balance between background and leaves so the space you have between leaves/tendrils already needs to be replicated all the way to the head of the scroll.

 

[Steve223]

Ok thank you Guys i appercaite the help.....Back to the drawing board
Steve

 

[Sam]

Steve: Take all the time you need. We're not tired of helping.

 

[Ron Smith]

Steve,

Which book do you have? I have elaborated and expanded on the first book with much more material "Advanced drawing of scrolls". I have leaf structure progression drawings that will show you how to construct a spiral and leaves properly.

These progression drawings will show you line by line how to study to create a good, simple, proportional leaf or a more sophisticated one.

Now this is very important. Go back to the beginning, put aside what you know about scrolls at this point and start at the bottom. When you get locked into bad habits, it is hard to break their spell.

Elongation of spirals is advanced stuff, as you must know how to deal with the problems you create using this type of scroll. You are only postponing your learning by jumping way ahead. You must crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.

English structure is the basis for every other style. It is the simplest to understand and will give you the idea of the flow of spirals and leaves. Learn this structure first and you just about have it. Anything and everything else is just an alteration and/or extension of this approach.

Hope this gets you started right. I wish I could sit you down and show you some stuff, but I don't draw too well now days. I can do it on a blackboard somewhat, but I would want to be able to help, not harm.

Take structure seriously, as it is the foundation for success in anything you will ever do.

The reason I know this is because I went through the same thing you are going through. I didn't have anyone to show me. Many of us didn't, but that is irrelevant. I discovered a way to teach that is successful, and in my drawing classes the improvement was drastic as a result of this approach. Of course I don't know if the students realized how many years they took off of their experience, as it tends to be relative in regards to time. And it might have seemed trivial as if they expected to become artists as a result of taking my class.

I have to say that these guys jumped across years of struggle and were drawing pretty well by the end of the week and had the basics down.

Having said all of this, slow down, start at a perfect spiral, forget the elongated scroll for now, and put your spiral into a square rather than a rectangle. This will force you to do a perfectly round spiral. Don't stop correcting until you get that perfectly round spiral. Then go on and learn a good leaf structure that will be compatable with spirals.

Now for some compliments. I can see you have a good eye for balanced spaces. Diversity in design will come with familiarity. Don't worry about it right now.

Ron S

 

[Kevin P.]

Ron, I wish you were still in a classroom.
In lieu of that I guess I'll have to take a leave of absence and concentrate on your 'Advanced Drawing of Scrolls', but then maybe I should start with 'Drawing and Understanding Scroll Designs'. I also have 'More on Scroll Designs.
Is there an advantage to start with one of these rather than another?
I'm going to focus and get out my pencil and paper.
Kevin P.

"Excellence is achievable; perfection is an accident"

 

[Gemsetterchris]

I love these simple scroll posts, so much to learn from....
Amazing how much should be corrected, though to the average eye everything is pretty!
Thanks Ron for that post, you are for sure a very generous man with your knowledge.

 

[Steve223]

Thank you Sam thats good to know cuz it looks like i need LOTS of help LOL.
Ron I have the first Book and more on scroll design. As soon as i get a little cash ill order "Advanced drawing of scrolls".
I undrstand what you are saying about trying to move ahead before im ready,,,I am kinda bad about that!
I will go back and just work on spirals in a box until i get them right.
Thank you everyone for your help it means alot to me and im going to get this right if it kills me lol.
Well back to the drawing board and as soon as i can get my spirals right ....Ill Be Baack....
Steve

 

[Ron Smith]

Okay Steve,
It is in the very subtle details that perfection is born. When you study a style, start at the origination and notice everything slowly as you go from beginning to first leaf. Don't go further until you understand what you have seen. How the lines emerge and merge, thickness of the stem, leaf mass relationship, background mass relationship. Then move on. Don't let anything go unnoticed... break it down and put it back together. that is the ticket.

Ron S

Learning how to break a leaf down and reconstruct it is essential to quick improvement. Start at the base line of the leaf and work forward. Notice how that one leaf interacts with the surrounding elements it is directly effected by.

 

[Steve223]

Thank you Ron Ill do my best to do that and not rush it.
Steve

 

[John Cole]

If you are looking to get both of Ron's books, GRS has a package deal. You get both books for about the same price as buying them singularly, plus several preprinted steel practice plates and a buck knife to work on at the end.

Of course, right after I got my set, my daughter looked over my shoulder at the size of the patterns on the knife, looked at me and told me "...yeah right, good luck dad...." I get all the best encouragement.

John C.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

If you are looking to get both of Ron's books, GRS has a package deal. You get both books for about the same price as buying them singularly, plus several preprinted steel practice plates and a buck knife to work on at the end.

Of course, right after I got my set, my daughter looked over my shoulder at the size of the patterns on the knife, looked at me and told me "...yeah right, good luck dad...." I get all the best encouragement.

John C.

That is right John, that is the deal I made with GRS.

arnaud