Am I really slow?

[thughes]

I have a question for ya'll. I'm wondering if I'm REALLY slow. This is just a practice piece, it's a 3.5 in X 1.5 in piece of aluminum from home depot. I wanted engrave a butt plate for my benchrest rifle. This is just a test piece playing with a design and trying to determine what graver would work best (105 looks like), and how this stuff cuts. Any way, it took me 3 hours just to draw and cut that. No shading or background treatment yet, and as you can tell, I wasn't all that careful, i just freehand drew the border and the little circle things around the screw holes. Everyone on the line is always checking out the other rifles, and I thought if I could do something cool other guys might want one. I'm just wondering if I'm still just really really slow compared to most people. If anyone else was to want one, I know I can't charge for my slowness. Oh and I was gonna put my initials in that space in the middle.

Thanks
Todd

 

[Tim Wells]

Make another identical piece as an exercise, wax transfer the same design and cut it as fast as you comfortably, confidently can then see how long it takes.

I think I'm slow too but it's all relative as your speed will increase with confidence in knowing what to cut as well as what to expect from each graver as far as how they respond to pressure and hand angle.

When you know how a particular graver in a particular type of material will cut, you can have confidence in that and your cutting will naturally become more deliberate. Slow ain't always bad, just sometimes unprofitable depending on the item.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Anytime you make a big change from one material to another it takes a bit of extra time.

I have this problem almost every day lately. Going back and forth between Sterling/Argentium/950, 10, 14, 16, 18 & 20K... white and yellow gold.

Then throw a piece of stainless or titanium into the mix. Platinum or palladium about once a month.



I use a 110 degree graver with various face angles for 80% of my work. The rest is done with assorted flats and liners.

You'll find that after a while you can change your pressure & stroke settings by memory and be comfortable within 3 or 4 cuts.



Brian

 

[thughes]

Thanks guys, for looking and for the advise. At my level of skill, I probably shouldn't be worried about charging anyone any way, but if I did I just don't know how to factor in my slowness. And man you are right, changing to this aluminum was way different. I had been using a 116 and thought I was pretty used to it, but my line widths in this stuff were all over the place. I took Sam's advise and went to the 105 and it seems lots better.

Thanks again
Todd

 

[monk]

i think that;s a reasonable time for what you've done here. there are some, who i'm sure, could do it in way less time. i found i cant increase my cutting speed without sacrificing the quality i'm capable of achieving. so i try to reduce overall time by being more speedy with other things-- sharpening, pattern transfer, and above all= making sure i'm very close to all that i need to do a job. everything i need is easily within arms reach. i just cut at a rate comfortable for me.

 

[thughes]

Thanks Monk, that's a good point. There is no doubt that there is lots of stuff I could speed up besides the actual cutting.

Todd

 

[monk]

if most newbies kept an accurate journal of job time-- and analyze it after the fact-- lots of non-cutting time will become obvious. thus my advice on a journal. many newcomers tend to sell only "cutting time". way more to it than that.

 

[BrianPowley]

My two cents (and that's all it is):
If you are engraving to make a living, you will quickly learn that time = money (and 3 hours to do just this much might not be profitable)
If you are engraving for fun/hobby----don't worry about the time. Enjoy the process. You'll do your best work when it remains fun.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I'm convinced that I'm slow. If time would matter about pricing, the quality would be less. I only like to finish my jobs the best quality I can reach and if customers don't want to pay for it, then they have to look for something they can or want to afford. I have all kind of jewellery, all and only hand made by me. I have hand made silver rings for 60 euro, Ti engraved bracelets between 300 and 6000 euro and I see no reason why I would make the 6000 euro one in less time so that the price would be 4000 euro while it probably wouldn't look that good to me.
Yes I know, most customers have no idea about quality and High End work, but as I'm the master, I can tell them.

arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Yes, that is slow........... But does it matter???

As Brian rightly pointed out. If your living depends on it then time is money. But as a hobby it's not that important.

More or less speed doesn't define quality.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sam]

Speed comes naturally as you develop muscle memory and confidence in your layout and cutting. That's clean cutting by the way.

 

[thughes]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to look and comment. I would like to be something more than a hobbiest someday if I can get to that skill level, but clearly I would starve to death now even if someone did want my work . But I'm having fun with it. It was certainly a good idea to try a test piece (nice to have such a cheap canvas as that's all the real thing will be) because man is it different trying to shade etc. on crappy aluminum. And once I shaded part of it and removed and stippled some background, there was a part of my design that just didn't work. So it was a good exercise to cut at least part of a test piece.

Thanks again

 

[rod]

Todd,

I agree with all the replies.

As Sam says, you are cutting clean and pretty accurate, I know shading is to be added, but the result looks like a drawing, a good drawing, that is two dimensional. Might I suggest, if you are to do the piece in steel, then practice in steel, if it is to be silver, then practice on copper, as it behaves close to silver and is cheaper.

Before you go any further than the outline, take a leaf out of Sam's book, and work on getting a bit of the sense of depth by leaning your graver over in a controlled way, to cut varying width perimeters to your main lines. It will really bring the piece to life. Study Sam's new video, available as a down load or a DVD...

"Engraving Scroll work, start to finish"

It is excellent, wonderfully clear, and covers what I am saying plus all of the steps start to finish in producing really fine results.
You are showing very good tool control, so I guarantee your lines will start to give a sense of depth.

Speed is the last thing I would worry about, at this stage.

Looking good! Thank you for posting!

Rod

 

[thughes]

Thanks Rod. I'm working hard at beveling my cuts, sometimes I get it right, sometimes not so much. Unfortunately, aluminum is what the real thing will be made of. This is for a 13.5 pound competition bench rest gun. There are weight restrictions, so weight is not wasted in a steel butplate, all the weight goes in the barrel and action. The stock is balsa wood wrapped in carbon fiber, so it is as stable but lite as possible. Aluminum butplates are the norm to save weight. I went ahead and shaded some of it just for practice, and most anything is WAY easier to do nice shading on than this stuff. I have a whole new respect for the other Sam's guitar pieces after trying this.

 

[rod]

Got it, Todd, and thanks!

You clearly know where you are at, and where you are going with this project.

I join with you in our respect for what Sam Welch achieved with the engraved aluminum parts on his guitar. I am pretty sure Sam told me those guitar parts were 1/32 in thick, to save weight, pretty darn delicate to work aluminum at that gauge, yet we will agreed the results had a great sense of depth.

best

Rod

 

[rod]

Got it, Todd, and thanks!

You clearly know where you are at, and where you are going with this project.

I join with you in our respect for what Sam Welch achieved with the engraved aluminum parts on his guitar. I am pretty sure Sam told me those guitar parts were 1/32 in thick, to save weight, pretty darn delicate to work aluminum at that gauge, yet we will agreed the results have a great sense of depth.

best

Rod

Photo by Sam W

 

[a.khaksari]

I think drawing and cutting are good and clean, and you're not slow! Because quality is more important than the time and the most important thing is to engrave in a way that makes you satisfied!

 

[thughes]

Thanks Ali, and thanks Rod for showing Sam's guitar again. I remembered it being beautiful, but I'm ashamed to say I'd forgotten just how beautiful. Or maby I just appreciate it more now that I've TRIED to be delicate within it

 

[John P. Anderson]

I'm betting that the last thing on Sam's mind when he carved those guitar parts was how fast he was able to do the final carving. His prep work is probably a work of art in itself.

John