A total lack of ethics.....

[FANCYGUN]

Looks like the Feds are finally trying to do something about product knock offs with this article about yesterday "cyber monday". It would be interesting to see how much and how long their follow through is on this. But at least it's a start.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ack-down-on-sellers-fake-goods/#ixzz1f5u3QYkl

 

[Sam]

The feds make a showing every so often and slap the cuffs on a few offenders. Still, counterfeiting goods is alive and well in various Asian countries and India, too. Rolex can't stop them. Microsoft can't stop them. Sony can't stop them. Apple can't stop them. None of the billion dollar luxury brands can stop them.

 

[FANCYGUN]

uuhhh YUP..............2 that Sam

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

None of the billion dollar luxury brands can stop them.

My wife ordered out a Coach purse from a website that looked like the real thing only to receive it in the mail directly from China. As blatant as some of them are, the "authorities" seem to be able to do little or nothing about it.

 

[rayf24]

Is it still not legal to shoot poacher or linch them at noon ???????? I thourght it was :biggrin: Don't worry about the feds just get a possey together and round em up and get the branding iron out !!!
my wife often say's Iam living in the past Dame the old days weren't that bad .
ray

 

[Ray Cover]

The problem is that our law enforcement can do very little about a problem emitting from a foreign country. If our gov would levy tariffs on the goods coming from countries who were caught knocking off domestic products in order to make them cost more here it would help. That way the cheap junk would cost at the same price point as the real thing. If they cost close enough to the same there would be no reason not to buy the real thing.

A problem this big is only going to be curbed with trade policies. Law enforcement on their best day can only put a small dent in it. They are just too out numbered and do not have the authority or jurisdiction to get at the heart of the problem.

Ray

 

[Andrew Biggs]

The problem is so big that no one can deal with it.

After 9/11 when the shipping was stopped for a couple of weeks, the backlog in containers was overwhelming. The reality is that customs, and all the other border patrols in all countries simply can't deal with the volume. Plus I doubt if anyone puts on the shipping manifesto that they are exporting/importing knock off goods so therefore it would have to be checked.

To enforce it they would have to open each container and each package and if they did that then international trade would come to a stop overnight. And that doesn't even cover the postal system which is all done by air these days. There is literally millions of tons of freight arriving in the USA every single day, 365 days a year. The authorities can only slightly dent the actual criminal flow of illegal goods such as drugs, arms, pornography, people and all the other bad things that plague our societies throughout the world..................... but they can't stop it.

On a smaller scale a lot of the companies involved simply are not big enough to bring legal proceedings because the expense versus a dubious outcome would clog up the court systems for the next thousand years. And even then the dodgy dealers would simply close shop and start up somewhere else. If the large corporations can't deal with it then the smaller once don't stand a snowballs chance in hell.

The biggest problem is ourselves, right down to an individual level, because we have created the situation. All of these goods have a market and we are that market. The internet has simply compounded the problem. We all buy these things. If we were all to stop buying the knock offs then there wouldn't be a market. If we stopped buying drugs then there wouldn't be drug dealers and on and on it goes.

It's simply the law of supply and demand. I'm not suggesting it's right, it's just how it is and every single one of us is guilty of doing it either deliberately or through ignorance. The western world has an insatiable appetite for consumerism and we all want it cheaper and in volume, hence much of our manufacturing companies have moved off shore. Imagine the price of an IPod, IPhone or IPad if it was manufactured in the USA or Europe.

At what stage does intellectual property come into play??. Just because Henry Ford invented the motor car does that mean nobody else was ever to design and produce them?. I'm sure Henry Ford thought that should be the case. Lawyers will be arguing about it till the second coming of Christ.

When it comes to art..................forgery/copying and plagiarism has been around forever. People have been forging paintings of the old masters before the original paint was even dry. You name it and it's being forged right now and sold on as originals.

Seeing this all started with Marty having someone in America blatantly copy his design it was probably handled in about the best way possible. Hopefully being caught out and taken to task about it he will think twice before doing it again...............but I very much doubt it and I suspect he will simply lay low for a while and eventually move sideways and start copying others work. Such is the nature of the beast.

Well, that's my cheery thought for the day.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[fred carter]

A few of my knock off experiences

I have been designing knives for various companies since 1995 and just about every design has been copied and marketed. My first experience was at the second SHOT show I attended after designing a number of knives for a company in Taiwan - at that show I found a booth that had nothing but copies of my original designs, all in very colorful plastic. Eventually I began doing design work for United Cutlery and did most of the Harley Davidson designs several of which had full US design patents - to my surprise I found a copy of the patented design for four dollars at a local rattle snake roundup. I bought it and sent it to United, which at that time had a full time intellectual property department, and they could do nothing. These copies come into the country and they are very difficult to trace and very expensive to fight. Kit Rae, United’s head designer told me that there were entire factories in China that made nothing but copies of his (United’s) design - eventually this problem had some impact on the downfall of the United Corp. itself.

Today I guarantee you that I can go into about any large sporting goods store and find copies of my designs in the knife departments - less today as newer designs from others are being copied.

Another interesting thing --- more than once has a large company accepted one of my (our - the company I work with in Taiwan) designs and had an initial run made and then taken the design to factories in China to be produced for pennies and no royalties for me. One design was sent for inspection to a large well known knife company and rejected - I found it in one of their display cases here in town, even with the same Photoshop artwork that was originally sent to my company.

To sum up - am I mad - sure - but I have learned that this is just the way things are, hopefully I make a few dollars before the designs are copied. So I go on designing and hoping that "Karma will be a *****" when it gets around to these guys. Other than that life is good! My best to all - Fred

 

[rayf24]

Hi all
I have been watching this thread and posted a few comments as well with a little wind up here and there but as Andrew and Fred as well as others have said it our own fault that these knockoff are here our wicked western ways we want more for less as in higher wages / less work hours etc and because place like china can product consumer product at lower manufacturing costs we therefore buy them, as our greed is seeing more for our doller or pound much like there was a time one could buy new zealand lamb cheaper that the australian lamb and the same here in the UK when N.Z lamb is cheaper by a more than a third can you blame the house wife for saving money and buying a set of chinese steak knives at quarter the price of the home market or the saving going in the bank which we then spend on a new ball vice or air tool I may also point out the in some case but not all the chinese item is better made than the local one because we have to keep the costs down and take some short cuts in production its not the goverments or the importers to blame its ourselves and I am just as guilty as the rest. here in the Uk I deal in domestic garden equipment mowers etc we sell mostly John Deere ride on mowers as opposed to the UK made machine which is not in the same class yet it costs more and is lesser quality. so lets look at ourselves first re the china knock off.
but back to the original post a pure copy by another engraver line for line one can only say shame on that person maybe use the back bone but at least change the leaf and shading and apply your own style.
Andrew back to all those sheep you keep exporting I hope your not hidding knock off Holland and Holland or Purdy parts or cheap knives from china inside them seeing as you New Zealands know how the customs and import system works at least here in the UK and US we just try and smuggle people across the channel in the backs of trucks:biggrin:
ray

 

[Haraga.com]

I wish the WTO would do something about New Zealand and it's cheap sheep.

 

[rayf24]

Driving home this evening my mind wandered back to this post and as I stated above re a pure copy ref an engraving still stands.
But have a look at this copy and paste it it will be a real eye opener I dont think we here in the west can really go on about chinese knock off's when you read down the list.
Do take the time and look at some of the dates of the inventions I think maybe they are the one's that should be complaining about knock off's
But the sheep thing still stands as HARAGA said cheap sheep. Had a New Zealand mate when still living in OZ ( which I didn't make public told friend he had a speak problem ) and his girlfriends name was Baa! baabra! thats what it sounded like:biggrin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

ray

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I wish the WTO would do something about New Zealand and it's cheap sheep.

You must be kidding!!!.............The price of lamb in our supermarkets is just ridiculous. So much for the traditional Sunday roast. I think it's probably cheaper everywhere else in the world

Andrew back to all those sheep you keep exporting I hope your not hiding knock off Holland and Holland or Purdy parts or cheap knives from china inside them

Shhhhh....don't ell everyone. The hardest part is getting the sheep to swallow them so they can get through customs!!!!!

and his girlfriends name was Baa! baabra! that's what it sounded like

That's why New Zealand men use mint sauce as an aftershave


Cheers
Andrew

 

[rayf24]

Andrew
And they say New Zealand men aren't romantic you smooth talker Try adding a little chilli sauce that makes them hotter
Long live Mountain Men and Mountain women and Mountain sheep:biggrin:
Ray

 

[FANCYGUN]

mountain sheep and mint sauce...................you guys are worse than me

 

[Haraga.com]

Umm, Andrew, you are right. I am kidding you.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Haraga

Yip, I know your kidding me

The main reason I come over to the US so often is so I can afford to eat NZ lamb. Man, the stuff is expensive here and can just about make you go over to the dark side and become.................................a vegetarian!!!!

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Marrinan]

Comanche Definition-vegetarian-Bad Hunter

 

[Haraga.com]

Andrew, lower your standards and eat mutton.