What makes a "Master"

The ability to jump through somebodies hoops or complete their corny assignments is what makes you a master.
Master, like "genius" is an arbitrary term no matter who uses it. It's an adjective rather than a noun and earning the name of one won't make you any better at your art. Jimi Hendrix was self self taught on the guitar. Does this mean he wasn't a "master"

Hi James

I'm sorry that you feel that way about the FEGA Master Engravers accreditation.

FEGA takes it seriously and so do the applicants. The only hoops are the application process which is easy, and then the judging of the work at Reno by all the other FEGA Masters present at the time. So the hoops are simple enough with no jumping required.

The corny assignments are straight forward enough. Lettering, border work, inlays, design, scroll, animal/scene work etc etc. All of these must reach a high standard of workmanship.....if you have any suggestions as to what can be added in the future then we are always happy to discuss it. There is no suggestion that a FEGA Master Engraver is an expert in all fields of engraving. That would be impossible for anyone to achieve.

It takes courage to present your work to your peers for critical review and for those that have been through the process they should display and advertise the FEGA Master Engraver title with pride because they have earned it. For those that want the title in the future then it's something to aspire to.

Will the FEGA Master Engraver accreditation change over the next hundred years?.....yes, it will evolve into something different from what it is today and hopefully it will be remembered that a handful of far sighted people got together and tried to create something for the good of engraving.

Somewhere in Europe there was the first Master Goldsmith, or first master whatever. They have had hundreds of years to perfect it and even then it will have its detractors

But the fact is...........FEGA is a young organization still in its infancy and as far as I'm aware it offers the only process to attain master status in the gun engraving field in the USA. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and take pot shots at it and dismiss it. It's not so easy to try and create and sustain something that has a real long term benefit for the future and help promote the art of engraving.

As I said, it's not perfect and there will always be room for improvement as with anything. But at least some good hearted and very sincere people have tried, and still trying to create something substantial for ourselves and future generations to aspire to. The alternative is to do nothing and recognize nobody for high achievement...............what a bland and sad world that would be with everything a pale shade of grey.

Cheers
Andrew

P.S. I see you have edited it while I was writing my reply. I was responding to your original post.

Traditionally guilds primary interests have been economic control. In Minnesota the legislature is debating the possibility of allowing non licensed teachers to teach in K through 12. The teachers union is putting up a huge resistance. It's about economics primarily and not the quality of education. They want to bring in professionals to the class room. Same goes for other fields. Certainly in the building trades where safety is an issue it makes sense. But many fields, especially the arts don't really need the oversight.
There are many master artists in America who've never met anyone's requirements to practice and excel.
I'll take anarchy over control and regulation any day in the arts.
What's more I've looked into FEGA's requirements and can't imagine why I would ever want to spend time on practice side plate just to show someone I can do it. I look for accreditation from my clients and not my peers. Any artist who looks to their fellow practitioners for approval is looking in the wrong place. Satisfaction can only come from your fans and not your competitors.

FWIT---I'm kinda proud of making myself jump through those FEGA hoops and corny assignments. (But I'm kinda low maintenance anyway)
Loafing around with the likes of those "Certified Master Engravers" has elevated me on a very personal level.
I guess I could have done "Mediocre" just about anywhere.

Hi James.

The rules have changed in the last couple of years. The practice plate is only to have on it what the gun(s) doesn't. This is to enable members who may not have a couple of guns in their possession with all the criteria on them.

Not everyone can have a gun with gold inlay, bulino scenes and lettering all on the same piece as the clients often dictate the work. It basically has made the process simpler but not easier as the same standards still apply.

But hey, if it doesn't spin your tyres then that's great.....none of this stuff is compulsory and it's all about personal choice......but I see no reason to deride others, or an organization that does see it as being worthy.

As for economic control..............I don't think so in the case of FEGA, but not a bad idea now that you mention it............hah!!!!

As for all the other educational political stuff.........well, that really has nothing to do with the subject of engraving and not relevant to anything that FEGA does. So it's a bit of a smoke screen.

Cheers
Andrew

PS. I agree with you Brian. .........there is also an uplifting side to it as well.

I guess you learn something new everyday. I didn't know being a master was that simple or easily defined. Degrees, certificates, awards are all nice satisfying feathers in ones cap but false grounds to elevate ones work above others.

There are many master artists in America who've never met anyone's requirements to practice and excel.

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Yes, that is quite correct and I totally agree with you. That is the same the world over.

But the fact remains that FEGA is the only American gun engraving orientated organization that has made the title into something a bit formal with a process. It has given a path to follow if so desired, that is all. Engravers can make the choice to either go for it or not............. depending if they are interested or not. There are many regular members that produce outstanding work but have no desire to get the title of master and they could easily pass. That is not to say their work is inferior to a FEGA Master Engraver, it simply means they have no desire, for whatever reason, for the title so they never go for it.

You can intellectualize a subject till the cows come home and end up going round and round in circles forever ..............everything boiled down to it's basics is simple..........but at the end of the day, someone has to roll up their sleeves and start getting the work done.

Simple? yes..........easy? no.

Cheers
Andrew

Will the FEGA Master Engraver accreditation change over the next hundred years?.....yes, it will evolve into something different from what it is today

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It will probably not exist, as 100 years from now guns will have long since disappeared. Still, it is not for us to judge one another. It will be those living 100 years from now who bestow the term "master" to a select few who will join the ranks of LePage, Boutet, Renoir, Michaelangelo and others who have left a lasting footprint for posterity. What you all should be asking yourselves is "will your work stand the test of time and become a lasting footprint."

Wow! Interesting thread. I'm learning a lot!

Right after I left the Air Force and newly wed, I applied for entrance into the NASA Apprentice Program at Langley AFB, VA. I was accepted, but for the following year. Within a month, I was invited to attend a similar apprenticeship at the Naval Weapons Station, Yorktown, VA.

Four years later, I graduated and was deemed to have earned the title of Journeyman by the accredited school and the US Navy. It was then that I was 'authorized' to apply for jobs that required a specific level of electronics/ mechanics expertise. The four years were challenging, I studied electronics which was going by the wayside while I was yet matriculating (tubes vs. solid state!).

Concurrent with that apprenticeship, I attended college full-time at night and graduated with a BA within 2 months of receiving Journeyman status. Again, that title allowed me to be considered at a level of knowledge and proficiency that managers who were hiring could assume I had. Thirteen years later I got an MS because I recognized that I needed to know more to succeed at my desired level.

FEGA's Master Engraver is a title I vigorously seek. And, I seek it in a relatively short time-frame - 2 years. There are some on the engraving forums who have poo-pooed that notion. Others are quite encouraging. I am assiduously applying myself to it in virtually all my spare time and go to learn from one whom I consider a Master Engraver daily and most Saturdays.

If I fulfill FEGA's requirements and am bestowed that title in any similar time-frame, I fully recognize that I will be nowhere near mastering the craft like Ron P., Sam, Marcus, Phil, Marty, Steve, Ray, etc., have over the course of their 20-40 years of application. But I will know that I have met the minimum standards for a higher level of artistry and craftsmanship.

If that designation where an end, in and of itself, I could then advertise my credentials and watch the clients line up for my work. But, as I watch these forums, the Big Dogs, the Masters, give and willingly receive tips from each other and continually make progress in their craft, whether it is appreciated by their paying patrons or not.

Standards, particularly those governed by the Masters themselves, are of great worth to all. Yet, I have had the displeasure of visiting doctors and dentists who had obviously earned their sheepskin without truly knowing their craft.

I'm grateful for organizations of artists and journeymen who not only set higher standards for their members, but encourage all to achieve their very best and make the craft itself a sought-after standard of excellence.

See you in Reno!!!

Well said Mike-Fred

Chris, Jim did mention FEGA, but that didn't prompt my post(s). You know me well enough to know that I'm there to cheer everyone on.
If Jim does or doesn't think/feel/believe that being a FEGA Certified Master Engraver works for him---I'm OK with that. Jim gets to choose.
FEGA is a pretty darn good guild, period.
I really love your last remark:
"Pounding it into the heads of a new generation of engravers who "want it now" and believe the secret is somehow locked inside the GraverMax or Airgraver instead of inside themselves is what the focus of discussion should always be."
Reminds me of the movie "Karate Kid": Wax on, wax off.

BrianPowley said:

FWIT---I'm kinda proud of making myself jump through those FEGA hoops and corny assignments. (But I'm kinda low maintenance anyway)
Loafing around with the likes of those "Certified Master Engravers" has elevated me on a very personal level.
I guess I could have done "Mediocre" just about anywhere.

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:yes:thumbs up::banana:

I agree with Brian. I appreciate what FEGA has done for me.
I should write more, but have to get some work done.
My gravers are lazy and I have to beat on them to get any
work done!
When I go for a coffee break they stop working.
They like to go on their own breaks at the worst time.
They start off very dull.
They do not get the point unless I grind on them.
They love to slip off to someplace they are not supposed to go.
So it is back to work
Later
Mark

Hi Brian ... no wonder the discussion doesn't read right now. It reads like a comparison of apples and oranges.


Anyway .... the point I was attempting to convey at 3AM was that it is a GREAT credential. Someday maybe I'll feel I'm ready. Don't let the naysayers get you down. Any credential worth having is never easily earned. Those who don't believe that, don't understand the amount of time and effort that needs to be invested on a personal level .... If I could go back in time and invest the four, wasted college years into engraving, I'd do it in a heart beat.

Talk to you soon,

Chris

Thank you, Mr. Miyagi.

I will keep this as short as possible. We all associate masters with establishing his are her own style, Van Gogh, Dali, Caravaggio, Monet, all had a style that was thier own. If we are all going to use electric devises and read the same books and influenced by the same people there will never be a master. Zippy.

BrianPowley said:

Thank you, Mr. Miyagi.

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LOL!! Yeah right.

More like Coach Buzzcut who stays on the forum 'cause he likes getting "kicked in the jimmy" repeatedly.

zippy said:

...own style, Van Gogh, Dali, Caravaggio, Monet, all had a style that was thier own. If we are all going to use electric devises and read the same books and influenced by the same people there will never be a master.

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I don't agree to that. All the names you listed, learned at their time from other "Masters". They are children of their time. I bet you wish, you where no Van Gogh, as he wasn't a master at his time. A poor man he was - alone in the dark...
It doesn't matter, what kind of tools you use and it doesn't matter, which engraver you look up - your personal style will come. Just because everyone has his own personal proclivity and boundless possibilities.

Coach Buzzcut? (That's funny)
But hey, when the dust settles, we are all friends here.
I can't think of a better place to hang out than with other engravers---whether they are beginner,novice, advanced, intermediate, expert, professional, master.

We all love this art form and I've never met a person that didn't want to get better at it.
With so many different minds at work,we will disagree at times, but nobody comes here, or on HandEngraving Forum, to lessen their skills and abilities.
My wife of 23 years disagrees with me every day (more like every minute), but she is the kind of person that only wants to see me improve and succeed.
I really do believe that some of the best engraving (not just on guns) the world has ever seen, is being done today.
Cool, huh?

zippy said:

I will keep this as short as possible. We all associate masters with establishing his are her own style, Van Gogh, Dali, Caravaggio, Monet, all had a style that was thier own. If we are all going to use electric devises and read the same books and influenced by the same people there will never be a master. Zippy.

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Hi Zippy,
Like Mario, I don't agree with your premise.
Many of the European masters of engraving stay with the established styles.
They just apply them in a more masterful way.
Subtle, beautiful variations on the established art form and traditional styles.
They display more evolution than revolution.
Best.

The heart off the matter for me is, in the 30 years I've been in the jewelry business I've never had a client ask to see my credentials. They like my work and base their decision to hire me based solely on that. I doubt I will ever lose a big sale because I don't have the right paper. There is no better credential in the arts than a nice piece of finished work on hand to show a potential client.