Gold overlay variation

Sam · Nov 5, 2007

During my advanced class last week I experimented with a different gold overlay procedure which worked pretty well. Instead of the usual way of cross cutting rows of teeth (per iGraver tutorial on Gold Overlays) to create a diamond pattern, I cut a few teeth with a #42 flat graver, turned the work around and cut a few more in a different direction. I kept repeating the process until the area to receive the gold was densely covered with sharply undercut rows of teeth facing different directions. It seemed to go quite fast and holds the .008" (.2mm)24k sheet gold very well. I'm not saying it's better than other methods (although I think my first test seems to be as good), but I think it's worth considering if you're doing overlay work.

Cheers / ~Sam

Mike Cirelli · Nov 5, 2007

Beautiful. It's amazing how you turn practice into an art. Thanks for the tip.

Tom Curran · Nov 5, 2007

Sam, that is fantastic.

Question: around the perimeter, did you cut right through the gold down to the steel?

If so, the hooks would show, or bits of gold would be stuck in the hooks. Maybe you cut deep enough to obliterate the hooks. Can you tell I'm curious. WHAT did you do?

Thanks, Tom

beautiful work.

bitmaker · Nov 5, 2007

You are the master, and I'm not worthy.

John B. · Nov 5, 2007

Hi Sam,

Another great tutorial, just fantastic.
And wonderful pictures to support it.

Question, please.
Was the flat that cut the teeth driven by hand, hammer or power handpiece?

Thank you for sharing this with us.

John B.

cowboy_silversmith · Nov 5, 2007

Sam~ I am a real big fan of your work. I am also very appreciative of and inspired by how magnanimous you are in sharing your knowledge base and experience freely and openly on this forum. I feel it truely blesses me as well as others that you continually add these types of posts to this forum.

Kind regards,
Greg Pauline

Sam · Nov 5, 2007

Tom: Yes, the gold is cut through to the steel below. If it's sufficiently thick you'll not have problems with teeth showing through the gold. After cutting away the gold, the teeth are shaved flush with a flat graver and the background very thoroughly stippled. If done correctly, the fact that it's an overlay is undetectable.

John B my friend: The teeth were cut using a power (GRS 901) handpiece. A hammer would be ok (and slower), but I doubt I have enough wrist power to do much of this kind of work by hand pushing.

Greg: Thank you for your kind words, but it's guys like you that are making this forum the amazing resource that it is.

Cheers / ~Sam

pilkguns · Nov 5, 2007

Sam, do you really think this is faster? it seems to me that all that stop and starting and twisting and turning would be slower than the traditional method as outlined in your tutorial. The traditonal method is just stick that flat graver in at angle and hit the foot pedal, and zoom you are at the other end, run that about 10 more times and you finished faster than I can type this sentence. It certainly does't have to be neat, I'm sure sloppy lines are just as effective as nice parallel ones that intersect at conistent angles.

I am sure from a mechanical adhesion standpoint that gold would be locked into place equally well with either method, but I just can't see that this is could be quicker. Maybe I 'm wrong.

Sam · Nov 6, 2007

Scott: I've not achieved quite the speeds you described using the other method, but this way did seem faster to me. Maybe it's all in my head? Like I said, I've only done it this way once and it did work and was reasonably quick. If others try it I'd be interested in hearing what they have to say.
Cheers / ~Sam

fegarex · Nov 6, 2007

Sam,
I think this may be a good way to do small inlays or inlay areas but I have to agree with Scott (did I just say I agreed with Scott?

). I do the same thing by running the flat "sideways" and can really buzz those cuts out. You must be careful in small areas however and your new method would be better for that. I do a similar method for those small areas and also around the edges of an inlay to make sure it will seat.

pilkguns · Nov 6, 2007

For more than a decade I have used dental burrs set in square stock, ala, the newly named John B method, as tiny flat gravers to sideways "buzz" those teeth in(as Rex said) in tiny areas of inlay.

dlilazteca · Dec 3, 2013

pilkguns said:
For more than a decade I have used dental burrs set in square stock, ala, the newly named John B method, as tiny flat gravers to sideways "buzz" those teeth in(as Rex said) in tiny areas of inlay.

Rise rise again!

Ok thanks Sam, dental burs?

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Dec 4, 2013

I don't know much about gold overlay methods, but sure I will remember this when giving it a try when needed

arnaud

atexascowboy2011 · Dec 4, 2013

Al Scott and I experimented with drilling several holes in the host metal and then undercutting them. With matching holes in the gold, then putting small posts in the holes, pinged in, then attached the gold. In simpler terms we riveted the gold on. I didn't care for the vulnerable edges. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

SamW · Dec 4, 2013

Your "teeth" look like some ancient basket weave...very neat! I will have to try that if only for the experience...who knows...

Lee · Dec 4, 2013

One possible advantage to Sam's basketweave is the ability to better control burr height. I've seen experienced engravers buzz it in like Scott and Rex described and they are amazingly fast. Be cautioned that when one set of parallel lines intersect with a set already buzzed in at a different angle, it is easy for a taller burr to be thrown up.

mitch · Dec 4, 2013

sam said:
I cut a few teeth with a #42 flat graver,

a 42? how big is this thing? my 42s are roughly a 1/16th of an inch wide (.063"/1.5mm). i've used a similar technique but with much smaller 37s & 38s. when i do it, i go over the entire field making all the 'chop marks' in one direction/orientation and leave enough room between the rows for an opposing row cut in the opposite direction. this makes little dovetailed troughs between the opposing rows to grip the gold. kinda like a typical dovetailed wire inlay cavity recreated above the surface. the gold is secured by deliberately positioned opposing rows of teeth, not random little spikes. i suppose one could improve on my technique by using a pattern of rows cut at right angles to each other (like a parquet floor)- like Sam's example above, but with each graver chop mated with an opposing cut. this might work better to control metal creep/expansion in one direction on larger overlays?

disclaimer: i'm not much for overlays, but on occasion this works for me, your mileage may vary...

LVVP · Dec 5, 2013

I love our forum !

A lot of great ideas

Thank you Sam and all masters for encouraging us

Southern Custom · Dec 5, 2013

If I had time, it would be interesting to try the same surface area with each technique and record the time. At first glance it seems like this method would indeed take longer to accomplish. Looks mighty strong though! Can't learn something new until you try it!
Layne

mdengraver · Dec 5, 2013

Can one solder elsewhere on an object after an overlay is done or will it disturb the overlay?

Gold overlay variation

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