Engraving is like....stove paint?

one man's opinion...

http://grayssportingjournal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=78&Itemid=75

Engraving is like....stove paint? I don't think that is what he said. Who knows what a so called gun writer ever means, but here is what he said: "The truth is, a bulino-engraved gun will never look as good as the day it comes out of its protective box. Every scratch and bump will deface the engraving until it looks like a flyspecked lithograph in a cheap saloon. At which point a coat of stove paint might not be a bad idea."

I do not care much for Mr. Weiland's writings, even though I have some of his books. Weiland quotes some of Mr. Greener's opinions about the gun trade in this article--a person I do not think I would have liked in his day. Although Mr. Greener was not found guilty of stealing the Anson & Deeley action design in court, many tradesmen of his day as well as I in this day think that he did steal it.

Weiland raises a point about the changes in valuation of engraving on a gun in UK. I am a English gun restorer and only a learner engraver (in order to repair some engraving on guns I restore). Engraving and engravers were just another craft/trade in the time of the E.M. Riley shotgun Weiland references. For example: E.J. Churchill sends a note and a set of barrels over to the excellent engraver Mr. Sumner on the morning of March 18, 1904 with the note reading: "Barrels of 1398 (gun number) To name (engrave the Churchill name and address), rough rib & engrave it these must be here tonight as they have to be blacked & go away tomorrow morning certain. Please Oblige; signed E.J. Churchill" From this note we can assume the Barrel blacker worked all night to get the barrels blacked for the customer gun to be shipped, as it usually takes 5 or 6 blacking cycles for a barrel to be completed--the blacker probably did not finish until late the next day.

In most shops, including the London best shops of Purdey, Holland, Boss, Stephen Grant and so forth engravers earned about the same as a head barrel maker, stocker and actioner. In 1875 Freedrick Beesley (later inventor of the Beesley spring opener action and which has been used by Purdey ever since they purchased the rights from Beesley in 1880) made 4 pounds six pence for the month, while J. Mace Sr., Engraver made about the same. During the same month J. Lucas, Purdey's famous engraver who developed the Purdey house style of engraving made the astounding amount of 8 pounds---This was twice the amount of wages to paid to any other Purdey craftsman.

In March 1936 at Purdey's J. Lovett, Engraver was paid 3 pounds, 8 shilling and 4 pence, while the famous Purdey actioner Ernest D. Lawrence was paid 3 pounds, 5 shillings.

However at the end of November 1952 Ernest D. Lawrence was earning 12 pounds, 9 shillings as an actioner and the young apprentice Ken Hunt, Engraver earned 3 pounds 5 shillings.

We all should rejoice that the demand in best quality English, Italian, German, Belguim and other shotguns (primarily demand driven by American buyers) has changed the fate and earnings of not only engravers, but the skilled gunmaker trades.

These are just some rambling thoughts of an old man who loves fine guns, mostly fine English guns.

"Utility? Yes, utility—because engraving has definite functions beyond decoration or self-indulgence. One is to reduce glare off a shiny surface, and the second is to help retain oil to prevent rust. Forget all the claptrap about “personal totemsâ€￾ and turning your game gun into an expression of your individuality. Essentially, engraving serves the same purpose as a good coat of stove paint. "

I believe he did say stove paint!

WL

Weldon;

Thanks. I missed that sentence

Mitch;

A thousand pardons.

Regards;

Steve

no problem, Steve- it was buried down in the commentary, but i called attention to it just for fun. and thanks for the history lesson!

well, i have not the skill for bulino. but this style is as valid as any other, i think. i'm sort of wondering though-- do those works ever get bumped around in the field ? i doubt anyone using such beautiful work would ever put it at risk. maybe i'm wrong.

Monk,

If they go to the field it is probably for preserve type bird shooting though driven shooting is not too hard on a gun's exterior. With driven shoots the gun is carried in a gun slip as the shooters move from one peg to another then unsheathed at the peg. Less chance for damage than for rough shooting. The majority of finely engraved shotguns are used for clay target shooting.

Like Steve, I am familiar with Greener's writing on the subject of engraving and it has validity as related to guns for the field. Yet WWG himself had the famous St. George gun made and engraved which was one of the finest examples of the engraver's art so even WWG must have believed that there was a place for a beautifully ornamented gun.

Terry Weiland wrote a good essay to reflect his opinion but it is my opinion that when he says "Forget all the claptrap about “personal totems” and turning your game gun into an expression of your individuality." He is telling those who choose to be patrons of the engravers art that they are all wet. Also when he writes at the very end of the essay "The scroll engraving—tiny, dark and mysterious, more beautiful now than the day it was executed—is a big part of that, but still only a part. That is what engraving should be." he, as a guru of the fine gun world, is telling his readers that if they think otherwise they are wrong.

In between the first quotation and the last, Weiland's essay has a lot of merit. Of course my readers know I never try to inflict my opinions on others

Roger

I predict that in the future engravers whem complimenting another's work, will use the adage something to the effect of "thats some pretty good stove paint" in the some vein of the show biz maximum, "Break a leg!".

Roger;

Reading your post caused me to remember a past purchase and to go down to my workshop and dig out a pair of E.M. Reilly, London back action rebounding locks from gun number 13194. I purchased these locks at the Autumn arms fair at Bisley shooting grounds in 2002 when I was living near Bisley in the UK. I bought them for their "parts" value. I pulled them out of one of my workbench drawers to examine the scroll engraving and to see if they brought to mind what Wieland says in his article: "The scroll engraving—tiny, dark and mysterious, more beautiful now than the day it was executed—is a big part of that, but still only a part. That is what engraving should be."

However, with all the poetic thoughts I could muster, I could not see anything in the engraving (and it is fairly good engraving for 1880-90 time period) that put me to mind of dark and mysterious thoughts or for that matter do not believe the engraving likely looks more beautiful today than then. The engraving is better done than most common engraving of that day, but not of the skill that one will find on a Best London gun of that day. Weiland is a fair wordsmith, not as good as McIntosh was, and not the highly skilled technical mind of Vic Venters who can convey his thoughts into remarkable "wordsmithing". It is a matter of taste that causes one to favor such engraving as was done in the late 19th century versus what is done today---by artist of steel with such talent that the world has never seen before. To my mind, given the opportunity to own a modern day London Best gun (at a price he can afford) engraved by the likes of Phil or Simon Coggan, the Brown Brothers, Ken or Marcus Hunt with their superb bulino cameos, he would jump at it---just like I would.

I do not mean to discount Weiland as a gun writer, because he is a good one and has done a lot of good to the best gun business. However, gun writers from time to time write controversial articles(McIntosh was chief among the controversial writers on such subjects as the amount of choke useful in a shotgun barrel and the killing power of 28 gauge guns) as it is good for their business and careers. This article as you mention is well written and we may never know if the opinion projected was his actual opinion or his "good for business and future articles" opinion.

Regards;
Steve

Utility? Yes, utility—because engraving has definite functions beyond decoration or self-indulgence. One is to reduce glare off a shiny surface, and the second is to help retain oil to prevent rust. Forget all the claptrap about “personal totems” and turning your game gun into an expression of your individuality. Essentially, engraving serves the same purpose as a good coat of stove paint.

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Yes, that made me smile as well. I can just imagine the conversation at Purdy or Holland and Holland.

"I say old man, damn thing is awfully shiny aint it. Can't be scaring the bloody pigeons can we. What would the rest of the chap's be sayin' at the club!!!!...........how about that Coggan fellow scratch a few lines in it so it won't rust while we're at it"

As for the rest of the article. A one sided view designed to get a reaction I suspect.

Cheers
Andrew

Well, it was written in 2006 so, perhaps his opinion hasn't done much to dissuade aficionados of finery!

So...lift a pint with me:
Here Here to the formation of the Guild of American Stove Painters (GASP) -dedicated to the art of keeping shine and rust away forevermore!

Weldon

Hey I wanna join GASP, where do we sign up at?

Maybe Brian can come up with a GASP pin from his Extreme Profit Center!

"I say old man, damn thing is awfully shiny aint it. Can't be scaring the bloody pigeons can we. What would the rest of the chap's be sayin' at the club!!!!...........how about that Coggan fellow scratch a few lines in it so it won't rust while we're at it"

I read that with a "posh" accent and had myself cracking up! What ho Jeeves...I mean Andrew, you've got a bit of the comic about you old chap

Cheers,
Cyril "Barmy" Fotheringay-Phipps

ps: Apologies to my British friends.

well, at least roger has enlightened me. that's a plus. thanks, roger

That's the one Roger

Cheers
Andrew

Aside from the engraving comments Mr W made . His comment that a gun made with a file is the only way to make a best gun is BS. The tools and metals today are better than any in the past, not knocking old time smiths they did fantastic work. A current cnc machine can produce to any tolerance wanted and do it over and over perfect.

It's a bit like anything isn't it.

A sack will cover your body and keep you warm.................but a bespoke tailor made suit is a wonderful thing to wear.

An old WW2 Lee Enfield will shoot just about anything.............but a hand made, custom fitted and custom engraved rifle is a thing of beauty and a wonder to hold.

A Coke can tear tab will service as a wedding ring.................but a 10 carat fully hand made wedding ring is a thing of immense beauty.

A cave will house all your needs...............but a modern air conditioned 3 bedroom house with a massive man shed is a joy to live in.

Walking will get you there...............but driving is so much more comfortable and faster.

Just about most beers will get you drunk..............but Kilkenny will do it in a much more flavorsome way

It's all a matter of degrees and what you can and can't afford, like and dislike................ And of course everything has it's own "aura" surrounding it.

It leaves me all GASPing for breath

Cheers
Andrew

Dave London said:

Aside from the engraving comments Mr W made . His comment that a gun made with a file is the only way to make a best gun is BS. The tools and metals today are better than any in the past, not knocking old time smiths they did fantastic work. A current cnc machine can produce to any tolerance wanted and do it over and over perfect.

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gee, i dunno, Dave- the author wrote that waaaay back in the dark ages of 2006. machine technology has come a long way since then...