vise plans

[karuhi]

hello all, well i just priced up what a 20-30lb vise would cost to send to new zealand not cheap. with the purchase of some kind of graver the vise cost will be just too hard to hide from my wife :big grin:
so since i have a pet engineer with a full workshop i'm sure between the two of us (and the kind person with a set of plans) we could come up with a half decent vise. does anyone have pictures and/or some kind of build plan for a vice? something around the size of a magnablock. cheers - justin

 

[Marrinan]

http://www.craftsmanspace.com/free-projects/engraving-vice-plan.html

http://www.myheap.com/book/chapter-02/engraverball/engraverball.php

The Art of Engraving by James B Meek

Start with a machinist vise which can be mounted on half a bowling ball

build a pedestal that will allow vise to rotate and mount this partially into cement poured into a round bottomed metal bowl

a lot of people start with a bench vise that can rotate and tilt and is mounted to either a pedestal or the corner of the bench

you can also mount your work to wooden blocks and then hold them on a sandbag or shot bag and turn with your off hand

Fred

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Whilst the bowling ball is a makeshift solution, there is a reason why we use proper engraving blocks. The main reason is that the vise has to rotate freely if you hope to ever produce good clean scrollwork. If you are working on small pieces it might be adequate but if you ever work on anything larger and/heavier is a bowling ball heavy enough to stop any tilting under any heavy weight mounted in it?

If cost is an issue then your per engineer is the best bet. Get him to make you up something that a) weighs at least 30 - 40 lbs (minimum), b) can freely rotate on roller bearings and c) that you can lock in order to prevent rotation.

Engraving equipment seems expensive to a part time hobbyist but there aren't many hobbies that when you become proficient can pay you good money. If you are thinking of, at any stage, making money from engraving (as far as the cost of plant and equipment goes) it has to be one of the cheapest setup costs you can have even if you go the whole hog and get a pneumatic graver, sharpening system and microscope.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I'm going to say something here and I want to be as diplomatic as possible about it without offending people. This is aimed at no-one in particular but rather an observation I have made over the years on the forums..

One of the things that alarms me about new people wanting to learn engraving and asking advise is they are almost always given "home brew" setups to save a dollar...or a few hundred dollars.

At the very beginning I think it's important that a newbie engraver should understand that anything costs money to get into and you cannot underestimate good tooling designed for the job. This applies to hand, hammer and chisel, air assist etc etc. In a lot of cases as engravers we have to make our own tooling or adapt existing tooling to specific needs of the job. Which is great because that's part of the enjoyment of the whole thing.

But the newbie has to make up their minds right from the beginning........do they want to be a DIY tool maker or engraver. They can spend all their productive time making tools but not practicing engraving itself. Sure they have saved a few bucks.......but at what cost??

A good precision ball vise is essential to what we do. Engineers and woodworkers know the value of a good vise and that is why they spend a lot of money on them. It holds the work in such a way that it is accessible to the tools we use to cut metal. It has to have mass, weight, free rotation. It must also have jaws of sufficient height and mass/clamping ability to hold a great variety of shapes. It must also be hand friendly insomuch as the hand can turn the vise easily. It has to absorb heavy vibration and yet remain stable enough that it is not always being pushed over easily.

With the air assist hand tools it is essential that you turn the work into the cutting tool (graver) in a smooth and even fashion while the other hand controls the graver. With hammer and chisel often a different style vise is needed because they stand and walk around their work.

To put it as diplomatically as I can.....some of these home made jigs are not really suitable to the work we do. For a beginner to go down these paths inevitably ends up in frustration and often just quitting because they never really get what they are doing. Because they are new they have no idea that what they are making is crap and actually working against them and hindering their progress. If the object of the exercise is to save money..............then put it in the bank...............but if you want to learn to engrave, spend the money on good tooling and do it properly.

Good precision tools cost money and are essential to what we do. My best advise is pay the money, get the proper tool for the job, look after it and it will last a lifetime. Then move onto what you wanted to do in the first place.........engraving.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[fegarex]

Andrew,
Well said. I understand money is tight and this is a hobby for many but people will spend $20k on a boat to catch a few fish. If you have the right stuff to start with you can then REALLY decide if engraving is your cup of tea. At worst, if it doesn't pan out the tools can be sold for a decent price and little is lost. If you struggle with the wrong stuff you may be wasting you time and may never know if it is the tools or your talent.

 

[karuhi]

hi all, andrew i definitly hear and agree with what your saying, the old adage of a craftsman never blames his tools is usually right because of the fact he bought good tools at the beginning. i was hoping to find plans (if they're available) for a proper vise - fit for a craftsman. i don't need to bodge something up because of the fact i have the luxury of an engineering workshop with lathes etc and someone to do it for me. all of the commercial vises are built on similar workshop machinery to what i have available. if i'm unable to find an applicable plan or design then it will have to be back to plan b - import something from the states. i really appreciate your help (and everyone elses on the site) of wanting the new guys to get it right at the beginning, so they can turn out some quality work to feel proud of. cheers all -justin

 

[Hot Knobs]

Vice

I have a set of plans for a 6" 20 LB. vice, not sure the best way to get them to you. Deane

 

[Marrinan]

Andrew, While I certainly appreciate what you are saying and for someone who uses a ball vise you are absolutely right on target. It is the way I learned. Please remember though that US engravers use the ball vise. Most of the rest of the world use a standard rotating bench vise. McKenzie made his vise from a fifty dollar bench vice and spent, in his words "an afternoon" making modification to allow it to move and cent for the scope. Its rotation was a steel rod machined to a point that fit a cone cut into a hard wood block.
Necessity is the mother of invention and for many it is required not a luxury.

 

[Haraga.com]

What does it cost to have the block shipped?

 

[DKanger]

http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/ballpage.htm

 

[karuhi]

hi all
haraga.com - price of shipping to new zealand for a 15x15x15 inch box weighing 35lb is $220-300 U.S depending on how quick you want the parcel this is for sending from houston tx, as thats where i have family.
hot knobs - i've PM'd you
thanks to everyone else - justin

 

[Martin Strolz]

The picture shows an „engraver's pinâ€￾. The pin has a tapered shape. It actually looks exactly like a taper shank of a big diameter drill and is screwed in a clamp of casted aluminum. Quite simple to make.
The practice plate sits cemented on top of a hard wood block. These blocks are easy to make as taper reamers are available. You will want a grid of holes on the bottom side. First drill stepped holes and then ream them to shape and you’re done!
A little soap or oil will make your block rotate easily. If you push down or hit it slightly with your hand, the taper builds up enough friction to stop the block from turning. Another advantage is that the plate always will stay horizontal as the pin takes the entire load from pushing. You can keep your work centered if you use the correct hole.
A bit more luxury you could achieve by adding a ball joint in between the pin and the clamp, operated with a handle for tightening. In this case you could tilt your piece. But for a first start I would recommend against it. Better use your time for studying and drawing.
This “engraver’s pinâ€￾ can be used for practice plates with scrolls, bulino animals, lettering, small inlays too... side plates of guns, sheet metal plates for printing, flat silver items etc. By the time you have done a couple of each of the mentioned items you will know if you want a ball vice….
Best success for your start, Martin

 

[Roger Bleile]

First let me say that Marcus and Andrew have made excellent points that should be a standard answer for the many who ask the same question over and over on the hand engraving forums "I don't want to spend any money but I want to get into engraving..." or words to that effect.

However Justin seems ready to spend the money but doesn't want to waste it on excessive shipping costs. Since he has access to a full machine shop and engineering talent to build a proper vise I will suggest he search the United States Patent and Trademark Office where detailed drawings of vises can be found.

Here is a link to a vise patented by Adolph Muhlmatt in 1892. I have one of these vises and it is beautifully made though a bit over engineered. Mine only weighs 7 pounds but the whole thing can be scaled up to any size.
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

CRB

 

[DKanger]

You guys with lathes probably already know how to do this, but here are a set of blueprints to make a fixture to turn balls.

http://www.bedair.org/Ball/ball22.html

I had another thought on this. Years ago I needed some large ball bearings for a part I was rebuilding.....just the individual balls, no races. I contacted Berry Bearing outside of Chicago and they were able to provide me with the individual balls. In this day of mega-machines like ore miners and such, I wonder if one couldn't get a single ball bearing from one of them and make a ball vise from it.....just brainstorming.

 

[Marrinan]

One of the ones I listed is made with a shot put. Sixteen pound ball of steel.-Fred

 

[monk]

i totally disagree with andrew, but unfortunately he is absolutely correct. sadly, i've been down that road. eventually i did buy all the right stuff. my personal thought is that early on, a good diamond- based sharpening system would be the first purchase to make. as a beginner just starting to practice cutting, i think it's critical to learn proper tool geometry, and then expand from there. that's just me. others may have an entirely different approach.

 

[Old_Biker_UK]

Justin - If you have access to a decent machine shop then making a ball vice should be no problem. I made one with the help of a couple of members here and a pal with a CNC lathe ( I could have done it all in my home workshop but the CNC took the pain out of turning the sphere.)
Details of mine here.
Don't have much in the way of engraving to show (at least not in public) but I keep trying. Having the right tools helps but it is an extremely steep learning curve.
(Hint - Have plenty of Band-Aids ready to cover the little triangular holes in your fingers!)
Mark

 

[wombat]

justin have you tried your local jewellry suppliers in nz if they cant help sydney has several good ones hope this helps rgs john