Question: Specialty golds?

[golden forge]

I was looking through a notebook of metal recipes that I started to compile for myself about 15-16 years ago, and was wondering if anybody here has had any experience with Blue, Purple, or Grey gold alloys?
I talked to an east-coast master jeweler years ago who said that he was using blue gold in two tone jewelry, and that it was hard to alloy, but have not tried it myself.
The thought of using blue or purple gold as a inlay material is a bit intriguing to me, and was wondering if anyone has had experience with them? :thinking:

 

[James Roettger]

I tried the purple gold alloy once with terrible results. The purple is achieved by alloying with aluminum. I did get a nice color but heating with a torch just caused the molten blob to expand to about 3 times it original size till it became a metallic "foam". I would only try it in an argon shielded induction type melter and caster.
I would figure there are technical draw backs that these alloys and their use remain mythical.

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

I would figure there are technical draw backs that these alloys and their use remain mythical.

You would figure if colors other than yellow, white, rose and green were practical or useful we would see them in use with commercial jewelry. Then again, there's no demand if nobody knows about it. I'd like to see someone give it a try. Maybe start a new fashion trend!

 

[golden forge]

The recipes for blue gold that I have involve either 25% Fe. (iron), or a 54% alloying of In (indium).
When gold was still in the $300. range I was a bit more willing to experiment, now that it's $1200.+/-, I thought seeking a bit more information is a good starting point before I make more fodder for the refinery to deal with.

 

[Karl Stubenvoll]

The blue gold alloy is intriguing, but whatever I've read has mentioned the extreme brittleness of the alloy.

 

[Brian Marshall]

They (blue & purple) work for inlay purposes. Both need to be protected by thick soft bezel, ridges or a shadowbox.

Can't engrave 'em, haven't been able to roll or fabricate with 'em... (Can fracture purple with a graver, ask how I know)

I treat the purple stuff as I would an opal stone and set it accordingly - AS A STONE.

Not on my list of favorites, but then I'm not fond of "Argentium" & the metal clays for most of my purposes either - some folks are.

Your mileage may vary.



Brian

 

[silverchip]

I have pursued blue and purple gold for more color on my palate but to my chagrin I came to find out it is only a novelty when it comes to these colors. There is no real practical way to add these to other metals other than cold connections like bezels, wire wrapping or GLUE. None of these are truly practical.These alloys do exist but if they were malleable enough to form,bend and inlay,we would be using them today.For instance, traditional blue gold alloy is 75% pure gold and 25% powdered pure Iron can readily be made but it really does not alloy, the iron intermingles with the gold and is held in suspension.The blue color only shows up after it is shaped and heated to500* or so.but if you tried to solder it or roll it in a mill or hammer it it will usually fail. The examples that I have seen were in the form of a simple cabochon held in a bezel, it was a broach or pendant from the 1700's.
As far as purple gold goes, if you are successful in creating a lump of the stuff, the only practical way to shape it is with some kind of grinding technique-diamond burs ect. if you hit it with a hammer it will shatter like glass, who wants that? if you drop it on a hard floor it will shatter ,well I think you should get the idea by now. Recently,Legor group came up with a alloy in light blue,but it has to be cast in a atmospheric controlled environment and you send them the gold with no guarantee it will work.

If you come up with a workable alloy, keep your secret until you have a patten on it because you will be rich and never have to work another day in your life!!!!!!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!

 

[Brian Marshall]

Forgot to make it clear that I used these 2 colored alloys as I would a stone inlay - as in lapidary, not at all like the methods normally used on this forum.

We sawed some of the purple an/or blue stuff into rectangles, inlaid those rectangles into gold rings and then ground the material flush with the surface of the rings.

The stuff could never be bent, squashed or hammered into pockets or grooves!


B.


Oh yeah, it doesn't drill well either...

 

[rod]

This is a good group of experts to ask a slightly off topic question:

I like the color and warmth of copper, for certain bright cut engraving projects.

Has anyone tried 'rose gold' electroplating onto copper to end up with a "copper look" that would not tarnish?

Rod

 

[Beathard]

And can you blue something with rosé gold inlay without ruining the bluing solution the way copper does?

 

[Brian Marshall]

Most high base metal alloy golds - if the alloys don't also contaminate the solution - will discolor, pit, or do something like what saltwater does to ships hulls, can't think of the word...

This sometimes occurs underneath the inlay (enters through crevices) and isn't apparent until it's too late. Had to excavate more than one inlay where strange colors were bleeding from underneath.


B.

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

Has anyone tried 'rose gold' electroplating onto copper to end up with a "copper look" that would not tarnish?

The problem with that is the microns thick plating will easily wear through and leave a blotchy look from the base metal oxidation.

 

[rod]

It is surprising, Doc, how tenacious gold plating is,

It interests me, as I am doing gilded flare cut, and I have done extensive tests on the tenacity of gold plating. In one test, I gold plated a silver ring, mounted it on the lathe and spring loaded an artificial "finger" (steel wool covered in leather) against the revolving ring, then let it run, ad nausium, with no sign of any wearing off, after the equivalent of a life time of average handling, so it appears to be a bit of an urban myth? I have also buffed it with 0000 steel wool at 2000 rpm, and found it remarkable durable.

Nickel plating before gilding acts as a firewall, stopping gold atoms from diffusing into the silver, hence thinning the gilded look. Of course, in my application I have the gold only in my engraved cuts, hence below 'sea level', so the fingers on a flute never really get down into the engraved cuts anyway. I do concede that gold plating sculpted domed ornaments can take more wear and tear on the 'mountain tops'. On such objects I would not gild.

I do like the look of copper on objects that have rosewood, such as the wee box shown below. Such applications do not get excessive wear, compared with, say a money clip.

I should put my money where my mouth is, gild a silver money clip and use it for years, then report on my findings.

Wait a minute, Scotsmen are rumored never to touch their money?

Scratch that idea.

Rod

 

[SamW]

That's OK Rod, most engravers don't have any money to touch anyway.

 

[Marrinan]

Scotsmen? No that's farmers in general and Norwegian farmers in particular. Go into town with a new $20 bill and new coveralls and don't change either until they get back home. At least on the Northern Great Plains anyway, Fred

 

[BrianPowley]

Beathard. I imagine the copper in rose gold would be a problem in a hot blue tank. Not so much if rust bluing, although the carding process can (and usually does) impart some iron contamination into the gold.

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

Scotsmen? No that's farmers in general and Norwegian farmers in particular. Go into town with a new $20 bill and new coveralls and don't change either until they get back home. At least on the Northern Great Plains anyway, Fred

That's probably why North Dakota has the highest number of millionaires per capita than any other state. I've known multi-millionaire farmers who you'd figure could pass for homeless bums. Dirty bib overalls, unshaven, smelly... The richest guy I know is worth approximately $60-70M and he drives a Ford Escort.