Preferences for Designing on Metal

[mdengraver]

Are there times when using mutton tallow dusted with powder to draw designs on metal is preferred to chinese white for drawing designs on metal. Just curious which particular designing method engravers prefer and why? I know many people do transfers but I'm interested in what medium people prefer to draw on.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Why use Mutton Tallo instead of good old fashioned Modeling Clay. It's fast, easy and neat.

 

[Ed Westerly]

I don't use either method. I use an Itoya finepoint system black ink pen size 0.1 from Japan. I have tried all of the transfer methods and the covering/draw through methods, but just drawing right on the place you want to cut can't be beat for fastness (is that a word???) and you always end up with the drawing right where you want it. That is not to say you may not like what you've drawn, but you can always erase and start over.

 

[monk]

i dislike chinese white.. when called for, i use a highly secret compound of my own creation. composed primarily of natural beeswax. i like this, as you can change a layout dozens of times, if needed, with little more than a pencil. no fuss, no mess. just draw, & redraw till you like your design. no transfer baloney needed. transfers on compound curves, such as a recoil shield, are a bugger (for me). much easier to simply draw till you're happy, then cut.

 

[Sam]

I've been using beeswax & tallow for 30 years, not because it's the best way, but because I started with it and am comfortable with it. Winston Churchill uses chinese white in a tube (English stuff) and he lightly 'paints' the surface with a moistened fingertip that's been touched to the white. With care he can actually erase on the white surface without removing the white. I mention this because I think the majority of chinese white users draw through the white and not on it.

Some of the old time jewelry engravers would touch their fingertip to the side of their nose to pick up a bit of oil and then touch the surface of the area to be engraved, followed by a dusting of talc. This takes away the shine and allows them to draw through the talc. They called it Nosoll for nose oil.

 

[Cloudy]

As an aside nose oil is also used in gilding to remove gold from unwanted areas. Great stuff!

 

[mitch]

"the side of their nose"!!!! Ooooooh, now I get it! I knew I was doing something wrong...

 

[BrianPowley]

Modeling clay (Plasticine?) for me.
At "Creative Art" Grand Masters, I believe they daubed the surface with modeling clay and dusted with magnesium carbonate(weightlifter/rock climbers chalk)

 

[fegarex]

Most of my work is done on guns without a high polish and I find if I scuff the surface with a 3M scuff pad (Scotch brite I think) in an orbital motion I can just use a softer pencil. A little modeling clay helps. Make sure to scribe after if it is a complicated pattern or if you will be handling a lot.

 

[Kevin Scott]

I use a white Sharpie brand marker, and spread it out with a foam brush. Add a little alcohol if too thick. Like chinese white, must be a thin coating. I can draw on it with a pencil without cutting thru the surface, and can erase with a white draftsman - artist erasure. It is much more durable than chinese white. Cleans up real easy with alcohol. It says it is an oil based paint.

Got the tip from the forums. Forgot who posted it.

 

[mitch]

I use a white Sharpie brand marker, and spread it out with a foam brush. Add a little alcohol if too thick. Like chinese white, must be a thin coating. I can draw on it with a pencil without cutting thru the surface, and can erase with a white draftsman - artist erasure. It is much more durable than chinese white. Cleans up real easy with alcohol. It says it is an oil based paint.

Got the tip from the forums. Forgot who posted it.

i had to go to Office Max yesterday so i hunted down one of these (man, does Sharpie have a huge product line these days!!!). they're not cheap- about $7, but my initial fiddling with it when i got home is extremely promising. it's kinda like a big weird crayon (not at all like a regular felt-tip pen) that you can smear a thin layer on metal. i'm thinking for regular use, applying it with a soft brush dipped in rubbing alcohol- isopropanol, might work best (like women using a brush instead of directly using lipstick from the tube). on clean degreased metal, it seems to have no tendency to flake or chip like Chinese white watercolor, even during engraving.

Look for Sharpie "MeanStreak" markers in white (apparently there are several other colors, but my store only had white).

 

[Kevin Scott]

Here is a copper plate with the Sharpie pen used for layout, after drawing, erasing, and cutting. Before cleanup.

Since I use my thumb to pivot on the work, and drag my thumb on the work as I cut for control, durability is important to me. I am push power only. Maybe with air power this is not as much a problem. You can see the Sharpie paint held up well. I did cover with plastic the part of the plate below where I was cutting, and moved it as I went along.

Some things I found with the Sharpie:
A thin coating is much more durable than a thicker coating.
Thin too much with alcohol, and film gets weak, less durable.
White erasure must be clean, with no lead on it, otherwise it will remove the film.

Maybe there is a better solvent to thin the paint without making it less durable. Tried acetone, and paint thinner. Did not work.

Bought the marker at Micheal's or A.C Moore chain crafts store. They always have 40% -50% off coupons in the Sunday newspaper or online. My small one cost $2.39, the large at Blick art supply was $3.30 two years ago. They will last me a couple more years.

Mine are sort of gloss white. If they make a flat paint, I think that might be better.

 

[Dulltool]

I just draw it on the gun with a ulta fine Sharpie. I will sometimes use a different color when making a correction in my drawing.

 

[thughes]

Hey Ed, where do you get the Itoya pen. Thanks.
Todd

 

[Sam]

My preference is as sharp a line as possible for maximum accuracy, and the only way I've been able achieve that is with a 9H pencil sharpened to a needle point on a piece of sandpaper and then drawing on beeswax & tallow. I guess it's all in what you get used to. When I saw Churchill's layouts the first time they were anything BUT sharp, but more like sketchy pencil lines on chinese white. How he engraves such precise and delicate detail with such a coarse layout is beyond me.

 

[BrianPowley]

...and to Sam's comment about amazement, I watched Ron Smith H&C a project all the while looking at me. I said" How are you doing that?" He said "Heck, I've been doing it so long, I can kinda just feel it".
I believe Ron does use some sort of Chinese White.