Non Artist Needs a lot of Help

[Sandy]

I am some what nervous about showing anything that I have drawn. As I have said in other threads I am not an artist. But with constructive critique you grow. I have several books on engraving, Meeks, Smith and others. I study these books at great length. However the mechanical side will not let the artistic side of my brain out. What do I need to do?

 

[Dave London]

Practice,practice,practice. Draw,draw draw good start keep it up and it will come around. I know it is hard still is for me also.

 

[jimzim75]

Someone once told me. I don't remember who. When you draw, treat each drawing as though you were going to sell it.
Try not to make little forgivable mistakes. I think what they were trying to tell me was, think it out before the pencil hits
the paper. You shouldn't never be embarrassed to show someone your practice drawing. Because they're your best attempt.
It also developes good work habits.

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

Sandy, The biggest thing to keep in mind when drawing scroll work is FLOW and TAPER. You backbone has to flow smoothly kind of like the tracks of a figure skater. Then all the fill (leaves, fennels,ect.) must taper smoothly into the backbone. Study the master engravers work and you will see what I am trying to describe. Not to repeat everyone else but, yes, practice, practice.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Sandy

Well, I think you've made a gutsy move by posting your drawing. Well done.

There are a few things that you can do to improve things in the future..........so in no particular order, here goes.

1. N-Graver sell some plastic templates with backbones of scrolls on them in variouse sizes. They are great to get "perfect scrolls" straight off the bat. However you should try to draw them free hand first ........then check them against the template. They are very good. John B was kind enough to send me a set and they are brilliant for a beginner.

2. Marcus Hunt gave me some very good advise (see Marcus, we do listen occasionally ) Try to grow the scroll from something, just like a real plant. You can grow it from the border or from another scroll or even from itself.

3. Your large left and right scrolls would be better if the touched all the borders. eg: left scroll touching top border and right scroll touching top border.

4. The middle section is very messy. Try seperating the two main stems. (see comment 7 before you do this)

5. Bottom left hand scrolls are too far apart and would be better touching one another and the bottom border

6. Try to keep the scroll backbone the same thickness. Your right one is much thicker than the left.

7. Your scrolls are fighting one another. Try starting again and get the scrolls flowing from one direction and growing from a single point. At least that way you will be in with a fighting chance. Trying to do a figure S with scrolls is nearly impossible to get looking right.

8. The shape of the scroll is everything...........work really hard at getting the shape right without all the flat spots.

9. Try not to make scrolls to big. By that I mean if you have to, break down one large scroll into 2-3-4 scrolls.

Of course this is all my own opinion and others may have a different way of looking at the same subject.

You will find with a more practice you will start developing the muscle memory and that things will slowly start falling into shape.

Keep posting as it would be nice to see your progress

Best regards
Andrew

 

[JTR]

Sandy, from one non-artist and beginner to another, one way I’ve found that helps a lot is to trace an existing example.
Hope this doesn’t sound foolish to those that can draw perfect scrolls in their sleep, but I can’t, and what I’ve done is to find a nice simple sample of well done scrolls and leafs, copy it to the computer, then print it out. Try and make it actual size, not too large nor small, then carefully draw or lightly trace over the lines, doing it in the order that you would draw it from scratch. Or in the order that it would be cut.
Do it several times, or a bunch of times, until your hand, and mind, start to ‘feel’ the shape and flow of the design. Keep in mind particularly those places where you hand just Doesn’t want to follow the line, and practice until those areas become comfortable. Then once you’re comfortable tracing, immediately draw the same design freehand using that same ‘feel’ that you felt when tracing the original.
Once you’re comfortable drawing the design, use the ‘feel’ you’ve learned in doing your own designs.
I do this a lot when replacing missing engraved inlays or whatever on old rifles, copying the original design, and tracing over and over again to try to get a feel for the original engravers hand.
Good luck, John

 

[NJhandengraverRon]

Hay sandy:

One thing that helped me with drawing anything photo's, scroll ect... it doesn’t matter what it is.

Take something that is already done by someone who knows what there doing in your case scroll work
lay a transparent graph over the top. Make up a graph paper with the same layout as the transparency
draw the entire outline one box at a time just as you see it under the transparent graph this way your drawing
it with out tracing, then do the same with the fill in work one box at a time.

You can make graphs on the computer. If you want just scan the scroll make a graph over that and print one with the picture
and one without. If you want to challenge yourself a little more make the graph you’re drawing on a little smaller with the same line structure
to draw the scroll a different size.

From what I see you’re well on your way, My Momma always said practice doesn’t make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect.

Hope that helps.

God Bless
Ron Proulx

 

[Sandy]

Guys thanks for all the input. I've printed off all your suggestions on how I can improve the scrolls. Just hope that I can get my mind and hand to work in the same time and space. I can see it but I just have a hard time getting it to come out the end of the pencil.

Andrew, I have a set of scroll templates. Got them from GRS ( I live 60 miles north of them). They look to be the same as those Ngraver has on there web site. I'll give it another try with your suggestions and post it when I get the guts to do it again. Hope to see you in Reno at the end of the month.

Brian, I am not sure what you mean by the leaves need to taper into the backbone. I have a large collection of books and photos of firearms engraving. And I have studied them for a long time. I can see it in my minds eye, just have a hard time getting it out.

JTR, I have taken your advise and scanned a few scrolls in and will do the tracing thing to see how that works.

Ron, Thanks for reminding me about the graph paper. I have used that method in the past to lay out checkering patterns. And I admit it checkering is not as difficult. But I have 30 years of practice with it. I'll get it. Just wish it would come a little easier.

Jim, I have seen you guys work. I am a turkey among EAGLES. It is fear not embarrasement.

Again to all thanks for the help. I am learning what the difference is between an Artist and a technician. Hope you all have a great day.

Sandy

 

[Marrinan]

Sandy, one of the things that I have found to be very helpful for me, also not very artsy, is I got a small light table at an arts and crafts store-Micheals I think-for a few bucks. I first layout my overall shape (bolster, sideplate, practice plate buckel, etc. I put a piece of velium over it, then put tracing paper on top of that. I then begin the layout sketch, dont worry much about erasing, next I put a second sheet of tracing paper and trace the parts I like, remove the first sketch and continue, I do this repeatedly until I get what pleases me-I think Ron Smith refers to this method in one of the FEGA videos. The light table I use is probably 10 by 13 drawing surface and I made a "table" that fits my graving block to set it on. Works well for me-I also made a small table that holds a 5x7 sratch pad yyou get from office supply houses cheap to dodol scrolls on at the bench. Fred

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi Sandy, you've been given some great advice here but I feel I've just got to add something else which I hope you'll fine useful. Andrew has already pointed out the advice I gave him and I'd just like to reitterate it.

Copying someone elses scrolls is fine, but as a beginner how do you know what are good and bad examples? A lot of folks don't and that's why there is so much rubbish out there at the moment which because it's hand done gets 'oogied' over by the press. Joe Public knows no better so he assumes that what he's seen in a magazine must be good and as we know this isn't necessarily the case.

Good scrollwork always grows from a 'point of origin'. This is the most fundimental thing an engraver must understand. This can be from an edge or a 'starter scroll' which is the one that has the back of the scroll growing from a small spiral. Everything which grows from these scrolls must be in balance e.g. you don't have a huge scroll growing from a smaller one. Likewise, the inside work must balance with the size of the scroll. Many times I've seen huge leaves (which cover area quickly) inside scrolls and the whole thing looks out of scale. Study plants and thier growth and you'll see that a branch never grows from a twig. You'll also see that if a leaf grows one way the next part of the growth grows the opposite way and rarely, if ever, do you get a huge leaf growing of the back of a smaller one. The human eye is born to know what is aesthetically pleasing and sometimes even though it mightn't know why it can pick up that something isn't quite correct. When you get to know and use the fundimental rules of scroll construction only then can you begin to bend or break them in a way which still be pleasing to the eye.

If you haven't got a copy already, I urge you to get a copy of Ron Smith's book on scroll construction. ( I think it's available either from GRS or FEGA). Even if you don't agree with Ron's whole philosophy contained within the pages there is no doubt in my mind that this is the number one teaching/learning aid for anyone who is remotely interested in scrollwork and it's construction.

cheers,
Marcus

 

[Rick]

I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I was given some advise from Mark Silver that really impacted on my abilitities. "Each line is its own project," was his statement. That simple statement has really helped my in all apsects of my engraving endeavors. Rick

 

[Big-Un]

One suggestion about practice; draw, draw and keep drawing the scroll exercises in Ron Smith's book, over and over again. I have pages and pages of just those exercises to build up a "memory" base in my pea-brain. Also, to help better understand the dynamics of a scroll, see Sam's tip "The Golden Mean" on the iGraver site. That helped me understand exactly what my mind's eye was looking at when I had a scroll done right, and when one wasn't. A little understanding of this dynamic goes a long way.

 

[monk]

one thing is very clear- a very honest and focused effort is evident in your drawing. not perfect. but continued practice makes everyone better. even the best get better. get yourself a cheap little opaque projector. they're available in toy stores. blow your drawings up. this can show spots where more attention is needed. no matter what--you gotta keep drawing till it comes out of your pencil almost automatically. your scroll choice is good. some of the work you see is really nightmarish for a beginner. that old thing- crawl before you walk is true. master the simple scroll before taking on the tougher design work. above all, keep a portfolio of your drawings, and enjoy the challenge of improving your design drawing.