locking the thread "an email I received today" ?????

[Mike Cirelli]

I think that locking the thread was a very childish action. The thread was very aggressive, with much debate. What's wrong with debate? No ones life or livelihood was threatened. Without debate how can anything get accomplished. I don't know much about how things are done in Australia but we in America built this country with debate. I'm sure Mike would have continued on with the debate. Hell we may have come up with something never dreamed about before. I believe the thread was posted for debate. That's great. I'm sure there are people disagreeing with me posting this, so what. I'm sure that there are some that agree with me also. I'll say it again BAD MOVE. It should be made right by unlocking it.

 

[Sam]

Mike, you know I love ya, but it's over with.

 

[Haraga.com]

Sam, you knew full well that there would be a lot of debating and then big brother locked it down. I was waiting for tundratrecker to post some pictures. I love to look at H&C. I just don't like to look at my own.

 

[Sam]

Yep, and we had plenty of discussion and debate and then it reached the point of no return. Many wanted to see pics but since we didn't it's not the end of the world. I do my best with the Cafe. Unfortunately it'll never be good enough, fair enough, or unrestricted enough to suit everyone.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Sam you know I love you back, but I had to voice my opinion. Everyday we're told what to say what to think by the media and others. Here we should be able to participate in a lively debate. Nobody was hurt. I'm sure the debate would have fizzled out but it was a very lively debate. To me that means the forum members wanted to keep it going, or there would have not been so much action. What's wrong with that?

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Mike

I have to correct you. I am a New Zealander not an Aussie

I thought that my last post explained it and it was pretty obvious where the thread was going to lead.

I certainly didn't have a problem with the thread topic. I'm always happy for people to discuss whatever they want within acceptable common decency boundaries. Everyone, including me has a point of view and I'm more than happy to discuss it without any expectation of people agreeing with me or each other. Live and let live I say.

However, as a moderator I also have a greater responsibility to the forum and it's members as Sam has asked me to do. If that is being childish then I am indeed a child.

I reiterate, it was very apparent where that thread was going to go after Mike's last post. It was going to go down the toilet big time..........and then my PM box fills with aggrieved people because so and so said such and such and all the rest of the BS that goes with it. Then I spend hours sorting out petty squabbles simply because a very small number of people haven't got the decency just to back off and leave it alone.

I don't know about you or anyone else, but I'm really busy trying to get a few positive things done for the engraving community.........and I just don't have the time to sort out a mess made by other people. It has happened in the past and I have no patience with it. Once bitten twice shy!! If I remember rightly it got so bad once that Sam shut the forum down. So is that what everyone wants??

You and others may have noticed by now that there is a very small number of people for whom water is not wet enough and love nothing better than to continually argue and be disagreeable. It is also noticeable that those people gather a small following around them and meet in another place and work themselves up into a hissy fit. All in the name of freedom of speech and all the other lame arguments that they bring in. Then all the back chatting starts and a couple of people love nothing better than to load the gun and let others fire the bullets.

I don't know about you but my experience is that a bad apple spoils the bunch. They are well poisoners that love nothing better than a continual *****ing contest and want everyone to come down to their level. There's plenty of forums and social media sites that have fallen over because of this type of behavior.

I don't pretend to get it right every time as I wasn't born with the wisdom of Solomon I just make it up as I go and do what I think is the right thing at the time.

So really the decision is up to you and every single member of this forum...................do you want an atmosphere of constant bickering and arguing filled with petty squabbles. Then watch threads turn to custard and become thoroughly unpleasant.??

Or do you want me to do my job and try my best to keep a pleasant atmosphere where we can all get along and offer each other good companionship and camaraderie?................It's up to you guys. (and Sam of course)

If you don't like it, then collectively complain to Sam. I'll step down and someone else can volunteer for the job. Either way I'm happy.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Sam, you knew full well that there would be a lot of debating and then big brother locked it down

So now I'm big brother as well as childish.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

[Haraga.com]

It amazes me that people continue to open new posts that they already know will **** them off. Then they notify the administrator and *****. How about not clicking on that thread that way you won't have to complain to the administrator, AKA, big brother.

 

[rod]

I would just like to express that, when I sign on and ask to be a member of a forum, I sign up for everything, and I am happy to abide by the decisions of director and moderators. We have been so fortunate in our moderators and director, these positions are very demanding, and have to be held as a labor of love. I only have a passing interest in whether all of my viewpoints get complete expression, and give my wholehearted support to those who take on the task of managing the forum for the common good.

Thank you all who labor on our behalf.

Rod

 

[Mario Sarto]

Rod, as you certainly know, we already had discussions like this. Last time Sam closed the Cafe for a while and took that time as a chance to make all of us a gift with the new software. I have to say, i don't need another gift. Just because this water is fine and i like to be here. I can live with the given rules. It seems that others can not.

I agree - it is a fortunate position we have. Shame on all who don't care of all the tremendous work done by the Cafe-team. As this isn't the first time i wrote this here and elsewhere, i wonder why those people, who are not able to show respect, are still here.

I know this software has a system build in to warn members. Always thought, this function is made for children, not for adults. Errors expected?

 

[mrthe]

....at the contrary, I agree with Sam and Andrew decision to close the post, i think that everyone may have had an opportunity to express their ideas clearly,and could no longer contribute anything other than more misunderstandings ,and bad feelings among users.
i have been administrating forums for over ten years and it is not easy, never rains to everyone's taste,always will end up criticizing the Administrators and moderators for their decisions,but personally I think he has done well in this case

 

[Mike Cirelli]

I never realized that you guys had to listen to members crybaby back about what someone said to them. I'm not sure if your talking about before or after it was locked, but if I had to listen to that **** I would have shut it down also. I can understand that.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Mike

Yes, before and after on that thread and many others in the past. And then on top of that we have to put up with all the moaning and backstabbing that goes on in other forums plus the occasional bits of ranting and raving hate mail from the truly disaffected that want to keep arguing long after the party is over.................. Generally the ones that cause the problems in the first place cry the most.

I take no pleasure in shutting down threads or deleting posts and I certainly don't want to be the chief censor...............but I can smell trouble when it starts brewing and going by previous experience it's best to just shut it down before it goes ballistic................. It's better for everyone that way.

The thing is that we don't talk about any of that on the forum or in any other public place or to anyone else. We just talk about it amongst ourselves and even then we are checking with each other to see whether or not we are doing the right thing.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I can't see why a tread has to be closed. Neater why a post has to be censored. I'm a moderator too on the other forum and I'm convinced that even when a discussion gets hot, in the end it are those who participate on that discussion who will have the last word and will come to a end conclusion. So moderating a forum doesn't have to be that time consuming, unless you want to control everything that is written.
So I think I can not say it better than Andrew did something like this: " we can agree to disagree" so then why not let everyone write down their opinion as long as it is relevant.

Arnaud

 

[Crazy Horse]

And so here we go again on another thread that will see no benefit to engravers. Ho Hum...............Boring!!!

 

[SamW]

Well Andrew, to be Big Brother you HAVE to live in Australia so I guess you lose on both counts...(humor).

I was just going to comment, when the thread was closed, that it brought to mind the difference in life today and in the '60s and '70s when some of us "old dudes" were trying to learn to engrave. We have gone from searching, often in vain, for a few photos or a word or two on engraving, to instant debate world wide with an almost overkill of books and photos and how-to articles. One cannot even suggest a topic for newbies to compare with because any and all subjects are instantly available on the web.

I often wonder what I would now be like engraving wise if all the web stuff had been available 40 years ago...unimaginable!

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

 

[Crazy Horse]

Yo Doc, I couldn't agree more. Didn't anyone engrave something interesting over the weekend, or did everyone simply stew over this non-productive thread?

 

[Sam]

I can only assume that the purpose of this thread was to pressure me into unlocking a previously closed thread. Or perhaps it was to complain about Andrew's actions. For the record, Andrew and my other moderators get my full support.

Being a forum administrator is like being the mayor of a small town. Whatever decisions you make will make some people happy and some people unhappy. Hopefully at the end of the day the small town has more positive qualities than negative. If not, then it's time to move to a town that suits you better.

Arnaud: As a moderator yourself, you can learn from our mistakes and hopefully keep everyone happy on your forum.