Question: inside ring engraving starting point

[krisf]

Hi all, I'm wanting to incorporate inside ring engraving to my self training when I'm set up next week. I have read some books, watched some videos and i have worked on lots of old hand engraved rings I've sized and doctored up to look correct after the work. I have a Hermes inside ring engraver that i can get free, it is very old and worn with script and block plates.I was thinking i would engrave the characters needed with it and then go over it by hand. is this a cardinal sin or is it a good idea?

 

[James Roettger]

The Hermes is a waste of time and money. Coat the inside of your rings with white water color,( I prefer Windsor Newton permanent white gouache for it's superior quality to most other water colors). Then draw your text in using a 6H very sharp pencil or some prefer mechanical pencils. At this point you can either scribe the drawing in to secure it or being careful not to smudge it, engrave right into it. In any case you will need to achieve needle like points on your pencils. I like to hold my rings on a 2" diameter rubber stopper from the hardware store. It makes a great pad and can be roughed up a bit with a rasp file to add tackiness. If you have a microscope use that to aid in cutting. Holding on a rubber pad takes minimal strength as the tackiness of the pad pad does most of the work. There are holding jigs but I don't like them because being typically wider than the ring they impede turning angle and don't work on all rings such as flimsy weight or some stone set rings. Once acclimated to working on the rubber pad it will be speedier and less encumbered than any holding device.

 

[Beathard]

I don't see the difference in doing this or using a pantograph. I use acetone transfers and then a scribe. It all works.

 

[James Roettger]

The pantograph to me doesn't seem to have the freedom of font choice or artistic layout of freehand work. Many rings will need a tighter layout than a machine can do. Some clients will ask that the entire inside ring be crammed end to end with text. To me the practice of all hand techniques will build a better, more versatile skill base. The script from a pantograph can't compare to hand drawn work. To me it doesn't build your layout skills one bit and layout is what good engraving is all about. Cutting is the easy part. I just don't see a pantograph being in the sequence of events leading to great inside ring engraving or practice. The practice of layout is what will give you the speed on a real job. After years of layout practice your ability to lay down text properly and centered on the first try will happen more regularly. You may learn cutting with copying a pantograph but your layout skills will languish. As for transfers to the inside of a ring, again your ability to lay the text in an exact position will be compromised compared to a traditional hand layout. The layout techniques you describe may work but I would beg to differ that they work as well as traditional methods.
Here is a link to an example of work that can only be laid out by hand.
and another example requiring hand layout.

 

[monk]

not really a sin, but you're shooting yourself in the foot. i don't think the font on your disk is going to be easy to cut. do what i did years ago-- created my own disk in .062" aluminum. was a lot of work, but allowed me the freedom of doing quick layout with a font i liked. i didn't use this with the ring machine, just for arced lettering in my nh panto. was complete alpha[numeric.

 

[mgdesigns]

The pantograph to me doesn't seem to have the freedom of font choice or artistic layout of freehand work. Many rings will need a tighter layout than a machine can do. Some clients will ask that the entire inside ring be crammed end to end with text. To me the practice of all hand techniques will build a better, more versatile skill base. The script from a pantograph can't compare to hand drawn work. To me it doesn't build your layout skills one bit and layout is what good engraving is all about. Cutting is the easy part. I just don't see a pantograph being in the sequence of events leading to great inside ring engraving or practice. The practice of layout is what will give you the speed on a real job. After years of layout practice your ability to lay down text properly and centered on the first try will happen more regularly. You may learn cutting with copying a pantograph but your layout skills will languish. As for transfers to the inside of a ring, again your ability to lay the text in an exact position will be compromised compared to a traditional hand layout. The layout techniques you describe may work but I would beg to differ that they work as well as traditional methods.
Here is a link to an example of work that can only be laid out by hand.
and another example requiring hand layout.

James that is exquisite inside engraving. How on Earth do yo do the horizontals? I can do all the verticals and slants, but the horizontals have me baffled. You should do a video, or at least a photo thread, step by step. Thanks for posting, and email me if you do a thread for inside ring engraving.

As I've stated before, I practice on cheap pieces of copper tubing, stretched or compressed to proper size, so I have the chance to practice and screw up before committing to the real deal.

 

[Tom Curran]

To do the horizontals, I'm guessing you need some dogleg gravers.

I have some of these in my pile of stuff. I've never used them.

 

[Southern Custom]

Is that the one ring to rule them all???
Layne

 

[James Roettger]

Here is a link to photos of some gravers I made for the horizontal cuts. With a lot of care these can be made to chuck up in a dual angle sharpening fixture. Of course some compensation has to be made in reading the angles on the sharpening fixture to allow for the bend in the gravers relative to your starting point which will be out of whack from a straight line. Prior to using a dual angle sharpening fixture I sharpened these free hand estimating all the angles which worked satisfactorily. I use a 100 V angle and a 20 degree heel.

 

[krisf]

thanks james, i do have a old E.F.Bowman graver ive watched in action work great but it is very large, i do have all the GRS inside gravers being shipped so hopefully between all that and more research i can get this nailed down in the next few years.

 

[James Roettger]

If you do get the GRS bent graver I would shorten it on both the tang end and the cutting end for better control. It looks too long at both ends for my preferences.