Question: How to show our work using a camera? [photo]

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Yes I’m aware of the fact that this is a place to share skills on engraving. It is not a place to talk about photography I know.
Thing is that we use photography to share our work, could be a video as well. Anyway we use a camera to register a image of our work to show to the world.
Being a goldsmith engraver stone setter myself, I’m used to look at details. Most of my customers look at my work not that detailed; in fact they even have no idea about details.
So if I do some pave stone setting, customers don’t even realise every stone needs a small part of metal that keeps the stone in place.
When sometimes a customer is interested in how a job is done, I take my X10 to show the details.
It was Brian showing his engraved golden flute keys on a photo were he used a wide open lens that made me wonder how to show our work to the world.
Soul mates probably like to see all the details on a photo, as that is a good way to learn something from it, on the other hand, a photo could also just show what it is at real size live.
Anyway, I have some books, Firmo & Francesa Fracassi and Giancarlo & Stefano Pedretti, and they show their Bulino work really blown up. And I suppose the books are not only for the “luna ticks” we engravers are who look at the details.
So my question is, would it be better to show an image of an object at real size, the way it looks live instead of trying to show it from under the microscope?

arnaud
I add two photos to illustrate

this is probably real size 50mmx50mm:

This one is blown up to more than 200%

 

[Sam]

I'm not sure your photos are a good example, Arnaud. I can see the detail perfectly in both photos. I know what you mean though, as sometimes we can't see detail in photos posted in the Cafe. Personally, I like to see clearly how each line is cut, but I'm one of the engraver lunatics you describe In Brian's photos of the flute engraving I can barely see the detail which is a disappointment. I'm all for clear, sharp photos as you know, and I've gone to great lengths to tell engravers how to get them. Photos don't have to be crazy big, but in my opinion they should be clear and sharp enough to show the detail in the cutting.

Cheers / ~Sam

 

[KCSteve]

Arnaud

In the thread on your second bracelet the pictures show us the whole piece - the way the customer wants to see it.
In this thread the pictures show us the details of the cuts - the way engravers want to see it.

My first class was with Marty Rabeno - Fancygun - and his basic premise that you should only look at engraving under magnification if you're doing it or buying it. Otherwise it should be viewed at the 'normal' distance for it (generally arm's length).

We've all seen work that looks great under the scope but smears into nothing but blobs when held out. Your plates shown here don't do that, but the shading is fine and tight enough you can see how it could happen. Hitting the right balance to get smooth shades of grey isn't easy.

So I think the answer to your question is, get the clean, clear, sharp, detailed pictures of the engraving for us here and the good, clean, clear, sharp pictures of the object for the customers (some of whom will also like seeing the details).

 

[Jeroen]

As an engraver, I'm with Sam's answer.
But I also agree with Steve's point. Customers buy what they see, and they see without microscopes...

So by showing very detailed photo's there might be the 'danger' that customers also watch these photos and start believing themselves to be 'masters', and look at engravings with a lot of criticism, without realizing the difficulty of the art. A bit like the overdose of cooking-programs on TV: chefs also complain about the comments on their art by customers. They have never worked in a kitchen, hardly know how to boil an egg, but use big words like 'cuisson' etc.

I guess only the price of the art can make the difference here between serious customers and wanne-be's...

Jeroen

 

[DKanger]

I know what you mean though, as sometimes we can't see detail in photos posted in the Cafe.

Since you have started showing the pictures instead of thumbnails, the photos shown are artificially constrained size-wise. With thumbnails, we had the ability to click on the thumbnails and view many pictures full-sized, if they were high resolution pictures. In doing so, we had the ability to view them generally and in detail. This was the best of both worlds. And, people with slow connections didn't have to wait while multiple pictures are pipelined into their computer.

 

[Sam]

Since you have started showing the pictures instead of thumbnails, the photos shown are artificially constrained size-wise. With thumbnails, we had the ability to click on the thumbnails and view many pictures full-sized, if they were high resolution pictures. In doing so, we had the ability to view them generally and in detail. This was the best of both worlds. And, people with slow connections didn't have to wait while multiple pictures are pipelined into their computer.

Valid points. We are constraining photo size now.

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

But, even though the image is constrained to size in the post... you can still right click it and choose "View Image". If it's larger, it will display larger. (I thought people already knew that)

 

[Tom Curran]

So, if you can't see it with the naked eye, and don't know the extreme level of detail, does it matter?

Of course it does, this is what we do. The customer nor the public would know what we do without detailed photography and magnification. Photography is a tool to tell the world what you do, a real sales tool, therefore, good photography is of prime importance. If you don't know how to get good photos...LEARN HOW, or PAY to have it done. Good photography is as important as good engraving in this day and age.

Otherwise, how would anyone know the painstaking detail you have bent your back over, crossed your eyes, and wizened your fingers over? Without good images, no one will know what you have done, or understand why things cost what they do.

 

[Roger Bleile]

Doc,

When I right click on an image here I do not get a command "View Image."

Since the change, I have been going to Lindsay's site to see if the same image is posted there, as in the case of Phil's "only a few thousand more cuts", where I can click on the thumbnail and expand the image. Unfortunately, everyone doesn't post in both places.

Roger

 

[Sam]

Roger: On my Mac in Safari browser, I right click and then OPEN IMAGE IN NEW WINDOW and it opens full size. If you're on Windows I'm sure there must be the equivalent. Yeah, it's an extra step, but worth it when you want to fully expand an image. We keep images constrained here because of the amount of people browsing with mobile devices. I should mention that it only works if the image is larger than what you're seeing. If not, then when you open it in a new window it'll be the same size.

 

[BES]

Hi Guys!
I agree with all those who spoke before me.
I want to Express their point of view on this question.

Main tasks of the Forum are the following:
1. Popularization Of The Hand Engraving.
2. Training of each other (a strong and experienced helps newcomers).
3. Demonstration of the executed Works (for the discussion, criticism, opinions, advice).
___________________________

That is, in fact, the forum technical.
Therefore, in order to perform all three points need Technical Photography.
The Technical Photography which contains details.

We are not discussing still life, where are the Tools and the Gun.
We discuss the Gun. As it is made.
Big plans for the discussion.
And Still life for the Сover of a Magazine.

 

[DKanger]

If you're on Windows I'm sure there must be the equivalent.

We can hit Control + or Control - to magnify something up to 400%, but it magnifies the whole window, not just the object. This results in loss of definition the larger you go. Some versions of Windows also have a slide bar in the lower right hand corner of the screen which does the same thing. Also, some versions of Windows have something called PowerTools which are located on Microsoft's website and they do various things once integrated into the program....kinda like phone apps.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Ok, Sam, perhaps yes my photos aren’t a good example. I also agree that as being a engraver a detailed and sharp photo shows the most information on the work. And of course no one can control the resolution of another ones computer screen.
However, on my jewellery website I try not to show jewellery bigger than times two (x2)
That because customers in my opinion can’t deal with proportions when bigger size. A one millimetre stone shown times five looks too big and a ring will show like a bracelet at real size.

Steve I understand your point of view that a photo needs to be as clear as it can be, your avatar tells me.

Kdanger, the reason why I add my photos the way I do, is because the auto resizing while uploading a picture as an attachment, doesn’t do great. So I feel I have more control on the quality of the image I show when I resize them and put them on my server. I agree there are still people who have not broadband Internet connections, but in my opinion they are aware of that.

Yes Doc, the right mouse click quick menu feature when using Firefox is great. I use that all the time, but I think those who use Explorer don’t have that opportunity.

So do you think a clean sharp photo, showing the object at a magnification X2 should be best?
If so I have another question on the resolution. Most of my photos have a 300dpi resolution, but your browsers only will show 75dpi if I’m right. So that does mean that even the image size when put at real size, can show bigger than the real thing because of that resolution.

In other words, I don’t think there is a way to show a photo at the right size, as that depends on the resolution of your computer screen.
But if I’m missing something, I would be glad to know that.

arnaud

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

Yes Doc, the right mouse click quick menu feature when using Firefox is great. I use that all the time, but I think those who use Explorer don’t have that opportunity.

I haven't used "Internet Exploder" (Explorer) for so many years that I took it for grant it that it was something any Windows browser could do. Sorry. Here's an example of the popup menu you get with a right click on an image in Firefox:

 

[BES]

If the photo is of good quality - that sees everything, and no increase!
What is good quality?
1 Photos must not be spurious color.
When a lot of yellow light. It is not clear what material the object is to create one. From gold or stainless steel.
2 The photo must be clear and contain the details. See what the focus of the camera - on the subject or the background.
3 The photograph must have a good balance in the shadows and light.
4 Do not be Peresvet and spurious reflections.
___________________________________

If all this is met. All they see a good quality of your work.
___________________________________
Today, the Internet has a lot of articles about how to make a good shot. And a lot of articles how to handle the photo.
I recommend the book Dan Margulis and his article (Dan Margulis - an expert in photo editing.)
http://chat.ledet.com/margulisassets/images/PP5E_cover.jpg

 

[a.khaksari]

Arnuad
I agree with you! When I want insert a photo of my work in cafe, I take a lot of photo of that, and then choose the best one which shows the details better! I Usually use a white Cloth around myself to make the light softer and to avoid reflection in photography! But also a polariser filter can be helpful, But for using this, the camera should be on a tripod without any vibration and using self timer! And as you know, the best lens is Micro lens,ISO 400 in Digital Cameras, and I only use flash in a indirect way, for example use a white cloth or a photography umbrella!
Good photography, that shows the details, helps me to see the weak part of my work by looking at the photo!

Ali Asghar Khaksari

www.zoubingunsmith.com