Firearm finishes after engraving, etc.etc...

[Weldon47]

I wrote this as a response to a question on another forum but thought it might generate some valuable discussion and subsequent information on this forum too. While this applies more specifically to the firearms engravers among us others may find it informative as well. Knowing some of this stuff can certainly help keep you out of trouble! The question (which I thought was a very good one) was regarding when bluing was done in the process, either before or after gold inlay.

Weldon

First I will give some definitions as they specifically apply to firearms:
Finish - A term generically applied to the many types of "finishes" available. I.e. bluing (rust, oxide, nitre, carbona); case coloring; plating in nickel, silver, gold, chrome, etc.etc..; anodizing; "coin finish" (which is hardened bright steel); french grey; the list goes on.....
Bluing - an oxidation that occurs in the surface of gun steel either chemically or through the application of heat or both. This reaction only (for our purposes here) occurs in the steel parts of a gun, not in the non-ferrous (brass, aluminum, etc...) parts.
Plating - a metal coating the is applied on or over the surface of the gun either electrically, (electro-plating) with heat (electrolessly) or by other means
Type of finish - This can be thought of as the "luster" of the final finish. This look can range (sort of from the bottom up so to speak) from a dull sandblasted surface; a velvety-smooth glass-beaded finish; a brushed finish up to a mirror bright polish and almost anything and everything in between. Keep in mind that most of these surface treatments will need to be done prior to engraving. Areas that you engrave shouldn't be messed with a great deal afterwards as you run the risk of damaging/removing much of the fine detail that you took hours putting there. Understanding the process will help you to successfully achieve your goal in finishing (not only firearms but knives, jewelry, etc.etc...

Firearm finishes such as bluing are applied after all work has been done. In my own experience it goes something like this: After the firearm has been disassembled & assuming there are no functional problems, all necessary metal preparation work is then performed. This includes filing/polishing, fitting, etc.etc...as is necessary to prepare the firearm to be engraved. (I am aware that some engravers neglect this point and it is lamentable. As an engraver you will be be performing your very best work each time you engrave (it will continue to get better & better over time) so why put your efforts on a less than adequate palate? The equivalent would be to have a painting by a modern master on a piece of barn wood: It just wouldn't look nearly as nice as that done on a properly prepared canvas!)
Anyway, (sorry about all the blabbing!), after all the metal prep work is done and the piece is ready, the engraving is then performed After engraving and only if there is any need for it, a light final polish is given (usually by the engraver or if not, by someone who is very, very trusted by the engraver) to even out the finish. After this step the firearm goes through the bluing (finishing) process, is reassembled and the project is thereby, completed.
Gold or other inlay is done during the engraving process, not after the finish is applied. Engraving on a finished (blued, plated,etc) firearm is not impossible to do but it can & will get you way in over your head if you are not very, very careful. As a general rule it is not the recommended process. You will normally get requests for this kind of service from someone who wants a light amount of lettering done on a piece & doesn't want to spend the money to get whatever it is refinished. Though I realize there are differing opinions on this, personally, I discourage this kind of work as it can cost more than it is worth, especially if you happen to make a mistake (OOPS!)
Most precious metal will adequately stand up to the bluing or case coloring processes. Plating is another story. It's not that precious metals won't stand up to the process but that electroplating (and electroless plating as well) are coatings that are applied OVER the steel surface of a firearm. (Imagine paint covering the surface of a wall & you will get the picture.) This means that unless areas of the surface are "stopped off", masked or protected they will be covered by a micro-thin coating of the plated metal (most frequently nickel followed by silver, gold & chrome). Additionally, your time consuming precious metal inlays will also be covered over with plating as well, thereby ruining all your hard work. As I mentioned previously, the only way to avoid this is to mask off the area you don't want plated. After the plating process is complete (If desired) the firearm can then be sent (immediately after removing the masking agent) through the bluing process. Bluing will not cover non-ferrous metals but will color the steel. In this way one can have a plated firearm with areas of gold or other precious metal inlay (overlay, etc) nicely accented by a blue background. It is not the easiest process and will require a firearms refinisher that you trust as being able to perform at a level well above that of average (one with a high degree of sophistication).
As the old saying goes, "there is more than one way to skin a cat" . Lets hear from you!

Weldon

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Weldon

That was a really interesting read. Thanks for that. I have to agree with the finish before engraving and bringing the canvas up to the same quality as the engraving. It makes a world of difference to the final look of the item being engraved.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Tira]

Thanks for the info, Weldon. I added it to the tips section.

 

[Weldon47]

Thanks Andrew & Tira.

I was really hoping to generate some good discussion with the topic, we'll see......

Weldon

 

[dclevinger]

Weldon, what a great post! I have to agree with you on the proper prepwork and finishing AFTER engraving. However, I do quite a bit of lettering for a local 'smith that likes to have me cut it after he finishes everything. He likes the contrast that it creates. I don't normally do that type of work because if I have just one little slip it all has to be refinished. I do it for him because we have worked together for a long time and he understands that he may have to re-do some of his work. We've been lucky so far (knock on wood), but I wouldn't recommend that others try it.
David

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Good call Weldon

For gun metal preparation John B put me onto stones. I’d never used them before but they work great. On the revolving carbine I’m working on I de-blued it and started taking the machine marks out with a series of coarse to medium die sinker stones and finished with a fine Arkansas stone. You can buy these quite cheaply and they are about 12mm square by 100mm long. They actually made short work of it and the beauty of it was you can keep all the “sharp†edges on the gun..

The final finish was done with 600 grit wet and dry sandpaper. With each phase I used plenty of stoning oil to keep everything well lubricated and wiped the grit away often so metal filings didn’t start scratching the surface. All up it was about 10 hours work but it made a big difference from factory finish to hand finish.

A word of warning. Where the metal joins the wood or other metal parts. Be very careful in those areas so everything still fits when you put it all back together again. Go lightly in those areas.

When I’m engraving, just before I start the shading cuts, I give the metal a very light scuff with old 600 grit paper using oil as a lubricant. This takes care of any sharp burrs. After the shading cuts I give it a very light stroke with old, well worn,1200-2000 grit paper soaked in oil.

Now what I’ve just described is the way I do it at the moment. So if anyone has a better, or different way, or let’s me know I’m doing something wrong then I am all ears and would love to hear more on this subject.

Marcus Hunt mentioned that he uses copper to get rid of burrs and I would like to hear more about that.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the engraving part is the easy bit. The preparation and finish is what can really make or break a project.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Weldon47]

David,

You're right about what you say & if you are working with someone who can help you out of a fix that's the ticket. I suppose (when writing this) I was thinking more of the guys just getting started who may not have the experience or resources to fall back on.

Weldon

 

[SamW]

Weldon, I once cut an inlay for an animal and prepped the steel for setting the gold. I then electroless nickel plated the piece and then added the gold. I used a piece of flat brass spring material for a chisel to work the gold and shaped and detailed the inlay. Worked great...but I have not done it again. It was a lot of work. The brass chisel will not mar the nickel or the steel or bluing for that matter but it does require frequent sharpening. I have also used a stopoff varnish on an inlay before plating and that worked OK but you have to be very meticulous painting on the stopoff. S

 

[John B.]

Weldon.
I am sure you know this but I did not see it in your post.
Do not run electro plated nickle finish through the black oxide(hot blue) tanks.
You will have the dangest mess on your hands and have to strip the nickle plate.
To check to to see if all the nickle has been removed from a previously nickle plated gun before engraving I run it through the blue tanks. This will attach as a smeary area to any remaining nickle and make it easier to correct.
I have heard of some people who run chrome plate through the tanks for a selective chrome/blue finish.
As I use no chrome so I can not comment.
Best regards, hope you are on the mend. John B.

 

[fegarex]

Weldon,
Good post. I might add that if you are doing any type of inlay that is to be blued, you use the "caustic" type of bluing instead of the "rust blue". Rust bluing usually requires carding with a wire brush and will mess up details in an inlay. Some engravers will do the inlay but add any shading after bluing. This can be a tricky thing to do.

 

[Weldon47]

Thanks for the added info, guys!
Sam, I have wanted to try what you mention but have yet to do it (not enough guts perhaps!)
Mr. B, Thanks for both the recommendation and the get well, I need it!
Rex, sound advice. A carding wheel gouging gold inlay is the very last thing we would need.
Thank you for contributing!

Weldon

 

[Ron Smith]

Weldon, good information for the beginner who has not dealt with these situations. I find that it tends to be relative to 1. experience, 2. Clientel invironment, 3. Monetery requirements, because in those invironments you are not exposed to the needs and requirements of high quality work, and this is why this forum is such a good place to be. The amateur doesn't know the "ropes" so to speak, and I remember how hard it was to get good information and made a lot of mistakes in getting it as all of us have........good post!

I have resorted to doing all of my own finishing, not to say there are capable people out there, but I have had a few pieces virtually ruined by "so called" craftsmen. And then you have time restraints to consider. Choose carefully and do your research before you commit your hard earned labor to be disfigured by a blooming idiot.

I have been working on my "canvas" the 73 Winchester for over a solid week and a half now(full time), getting it ready for engraving, but I understand that this would not be resonable when you are at the bottom, in which case it would be wise to leave it in a "professional's" hands. I know too that when you are begining, you don't really know what to ask. I don't allow anyone to touch it with a buff when I am through preparing it. I still have some days to go before I can get on with the decoration of the 73.
So all that have not dealt with finishing and preperation, heed weldon's advice.........Good stuff!...do your research, and don't hesitate to ask............before you leap,........ but stay within reason according to the price you are going to get for the work........Ron S

 

[Tom Curran]

I understand that heat blue and charcoal blue will not melt out precious metal inlay. Never done it, though.
Tom

 

[Thierry Duguet]

I understand that heat blue and charcoal blue will not melt out precious metal inlay. Never done it, though.
Tom

No it will not melt. Gold melt around 1800 F, if your gunsmith go that high the gold is the least of your problem (lol).
Thank you Weldon for a great posting, I will add that I most of the time shade my gold inlay after bluing or graying, I think that it is sharper that way, I also use oil+steel wool after polishing (0000) it kind of burnish the gold and create a higher contrast.

 

[dlilazteca]

Nice info thanks

Carlos De La O III