Cool Van Clef and Arpels watch link

[James Roettger]

Check out this YouTube link. I always find it curious that Swiss watch engravers always use onglette engravers rather than the square shanks that most use. Does anyone have any ideas about what kind of paint is being applied to the engraving?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mv4OqhqC_o

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Very cool and skilled work.

With your traditional scorper type graver they come in pre determined sizes so it is easier to have a selection of something like flats without all the mucking around shaping them up. It also probably has a lot to do with the way they were trained if they did some sort of apprenticeship. So it's just a matter of different strokes for different folks.

Naturally one of the advantages of the scorper gravers is that they retain their width along the entire length so you don't have to continually reshape the taper on your graver as it gets smaller. However, working with gold/silver means that you won't be sharpening as aggressively as you would on steel.

The paint I suspect is something along the lines of Colorit which I think is a German product made to replace enamel. It is a resin type based product that you paint on and then cure under intense UV light which takes about 30 seconds to 3 minutes to cure depending on the coverage. You can mix it as seen in the video to anything you want. It is also reportedly harder than traditional enamels.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

The paint I suspect is something along the lines of Colorit which I think is a German product made to replace enamel.

There is also a low temp cure product called Ceramit Enamel that's a lot like you describe.

 

[axeman11]

Hmmm the method of coloring of the material is very interesting. Has anyone done this on a firearm that anyone knows of? It would be a unique experiment and project to combine traditional engraving and inlay work with gilded engraving in gold, silver and copper as described in an artical by Rod Cameron in the most recent edition of The Engraver. Add to that this coloring method and the results would be breathtaking. I do not yet possess the skills to do this. Rod, Barry, Lee, Mike and you other master engravers please complete this and get back with me on your results. Haaaa just kidding. Or maybe not. There is NO box Barry. Right?

 

[rod]

Axeman,

Here is the thread talking about Mario Terzi's wonderful new book:

http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?11010-Mario-Terzi-book

He uses enamels on many of his firearms, and his mastery is exquisite in all of the engraving techniques. He does not describe the details of the technique, except that it is applied with fine needles to achieve resolution.

Thank you for the compliment, but I would be a total imposter having my name appearing in the company of those true masters you list. My engraving experience is a bit like my gilding.... not very deep!

best

Rod

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Yes, it's all been tried and done before. Guns, knives, jewellery, etc, etc.

There are plenty of books available on the various types of enamelling processes. One thing that has changed is the use of these new resin type enamels. As Neal pointed out there is low temp Ceramit plus the UV cured ones like Colorit and probably all sorts of things. No doubt pure enamellists would shudder in horror at their use.

Having said that, are the resin type enamels seen as inferior on high end products like jewellery?? Much like copper being a poor cousin to rose/pink gold.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[simone-cervellati]

To answer you Andrew, Yes, I know a couple of really good enamellists and they would shudder in horror at the thought of a "non conventional" enamel.

Resin might be mixable and harder but glass is glass and has it's own personality to it and a good artist can make wonderful things with it, plus you can always tell the difference, much like hand engraving and pantograph work.

It might look right but you know it could look much much better.

At least that's my opinion,

Simone.

 

[simone-cervellati]

Here is some very, very good plique a jour from my teacher when I was studying in london:
http://www.aradesijewellery.com/collection-gallery/album/organic-luxury

Simone.

 

[mrthe]

very nice video and intersting enameling tecnique ,in Barcelona we have an Historic jewellery Company very famous for his enamling tecnique : Masriera if you don't know it take a look to his faboulous works in google,heare some examples:

 

[GTJC460]

It is enamel. Here is another video showing the VC&A enamelling artists at work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ln9ZHlRBE4&feature=related
[video=youtube;7Ln9ZHlRBE4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ln9ZHlRBE4&feature=related[/video]

The glass grannules get mixed with some kind of liquid creating an almost oil paint like consistency. It's benefits are precision in application and give the artist the ability to paint it on non-flat surfaces.

 

[Roger Bleile]

In the 1930s Roudolph Kornbrath tried using vitrified enamel on a couple of guns but it was not popular with shooters and collectors. I believe that the problem with hard fired enamel is that it is brittle and will crack or craze eventually from the recoil of the gun.

Incisoni Dassa is another Italian engraving firm who has made extensive use of cold epoxy enamels on their work for the gun trade. Here is a link to their inlay and enamel work: http://www.incisionidassa.com/incisioni/shotgunsgold.php

In the image below one of the Dassa brothers shows the color palette to Steve Fjestad and me as Elena Michelli-Lamboy translates the details of the technique. It is important to note that the colors are applied in very thin layers and allowed to cure before the next layer is applied. Nevertheless I am quite certain that most of these enameled guns are destined to be "safe queens."

I have also added an image of one of several engraver work stations in the Dassa studio to illustrate how simple a work station can be for an engraver who uses only H&C, burin, and an optivisor.

 

[Dave London]

The epoxy enamels work great for the folks whom can not fire the finished work, as most engravers in the USA work on items that were factory finished. And using real enamel is not practical.and as Mr. B said it does not crack.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Yes, enamel work on a gun would be a bit tricky I would imagine. The fact that we don't see more of it tells you something

But I do understand what Simone was saying about enamels. It is the artisan approach whereas the resins are seen as more industrial. If a beautiful piece of jewellery was made in copper then it doesn't really matter how good it because copper is seen as inferior. However the same piece in rose gold would be seen as far more valuable than just the price of the gold.

It makes sense that they would use real enamels on the watch in the video............I've often been tempted to dabble in the resin side of things but can't help but think that it would be better to buy a small kiln and use proper enamels. It adds both artistic and monetary value to the work.

Cheers
Andrew

P.S. That's certainly some stunning enamel jewellery and watch work

 

[axeman11]

In the movie, The Good The Bad and the Ugly, the Indian guy picks up a piece if hard rock candy and says,
"it's not for eatin, it's for lookin through" Aaaaaaah, I say, much like an artfully executed engraved, gilded, and enameled(or other method) gun I would think.

On another note, you all on this thread are a wealth of information. And as responsive as a Ferrari. A turbocharged one.

 

[James Roettger]

The online research I did about the watch just describes it as miniature painting. Being protected by the watch crystal I would imagine the most important part would be that the color is lightfast and be derived from metallic oxides rather than dyes. It definitely looks to require a real pro to service the works. They promote them in a pair of man's and ladies for $1,000,000 The lube job every 5 years probably runs $10,000

 

[Chujybear]

Does anybody else carve like the engraver in the video. Guy goes like a madman