Best graver geometry for hammer and chisel?
- Thread starter jzknives
- Start date
silverchip
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Maybe what doesn't feel right is the hammer?? But I might consider a old fashion 45/15 to start. Pay attention to the length of the heel. There usually is a happy medium that works well for most. Getting used to a tool is like making friends, sometimes it takes some practice and more than one meeting. I have several different hammers and depending on the size of the point( if it is a very small point) it might like a lighter hammer and a lighter tap or visa versa. Practice with H&C is vital to become familiar enough to make it second nature.
leo
Elite Cafe Member
Silverchip just told you everything you needed to know what I am surprise is that Lindsay template is not working for you maybe you have a big face on it because I use it and it works for me that what I been practicing with since I started
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leo
Elite Cafe Member
the face is to wide from grinding it that you would see it on your top facets remember the middle facet forms a diamond you want the side relives to meet in the middle of that diamond to make like a strait line across and then when you grind the face you just want the face shape because if you over grind it you would see that half of that diamond disappear
but you would always get the 45 degree on the face the heel only once back that would give you what silverchip said 45/15
45 degree face 15 degrees belly angle and you go from there and the medium is you make the heel bigger until you get the sweet spot that's how I got mine some other people mite have a different way
but you would always get the 45 degree on the face the heel only once back that would give you what silverchip said 45/15
45 degree face 15 degrees belly angle and you go from there and the medium is you make the heel bigger until you get the sweet spot that's how I got mine some other people mite have a different way
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Donny
Elite Cafe Member
In no way do I wish to sound condescending...but have you had any lessons with H&C? When I first started it was on H&C. The lessons sped up the learning curve. Dramatically. .......So questions to you that may help.... Do you tilt your vise away from yourself a little bit? softer strikes or harder? I tried to hit to hard when I started because I thought I could get the design done fast by using less strikes..more softer strikes allows for a smoother line/curve....Have you watched many videos of others using H&C? .... mimic their set-up and ALL body and tool angles that you see...the geometry between H&C and airassist is the same for my use and techniques...to me that sounds like your best bet to fix your problem....
Donny
Donny
Donny
Donny
silverchip
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
This might help you get an Idea about what to do as far as what to make your gravers look like before you sharpen them. Remove as much excess material from the top and sides as you can to give you a better view of your work. As far as feel for it, keep at it and don't quit.
zzcutter
Elite Cafe Member
I have been using hammer and chisel for about 30 years and was taught to put a 45 degree face and 15 degree heel. But for gun engraving I make my face 50 degrees holds up a little better and when your done putting the heel on, put the tip on your stone very lightly and draw a very small w this will also help preserve your point. When cutting straight lines use a longer heel and when doing scroll make the smallest heel you can and this also helps tip longevity.
I do all my sharpening with a GRS power hone with a 600 grit, I don't go any finer then that for gun engraving found it to be just a waist of time. I use momax colbolt and glen steel gravers and can cut just about anything but a Glock. One other thing I do is for scroll and leaf cutting I like my graver face not to be to small I find it holds up better, but when going to do shading I like to have a small face. This is what works for me. So remember find what works for you and keep it simple. Hope this helps, Good luck and have fun
I do all my sharpening with a GRS power hone with a 600 grit, I don't go any finer then that for gun engraving found it to be just a waist of time. I use momax colbolt and glen steel gravers and can cut just about anything but a Glock. One other thing I do is for scroll and leaf cutting I like my graver face not to be to small I find it holds up better, but when going to do shading I like to have a small face. This is what works for me. So remember find what works for you and keep it simple. Hope this helps, Good luck and have fun
A 45/15 square graver cuts really well as a chisel. Lynton McKenzie used a much higher heel angle, probably around 20-25° and it obviously worked well for him.
I have not found that the size of the face makes any difference in (my) chisel performance. Of course a smaller face is easer to see around and I do keep mine small, but I can cut just as well with a chisel with a large face. YMMV.
I have not found that the size of the face makes any difference in (my) chisel performance. Of course a smaller face is easer to see around and I do keep mine small, but I can cut just as well with a chisel with a large face. YMMV.
When engraving with the H&C for me the onglette is the graver that will do it all,backbones of the scrolls and any other details.J.J.
I do not have as much experiance as some of the other guys with H&C but one thing I found that helped me was to put a little more lift in the graver. The gravers I was using I shapened like I would for a air driven hand piece and I was having to lay these much flatter than felt comfortable. I found that grinding a 15 degree lift to the graver before grinding the actual point allowed be to raise that graver handle up which in turn felt more confortable and my line work improved. What Sam mentioin by changing the heel angle may do the same thing, I am going to give that a try. It will probably take less time that grinding a 15 degree draft on the bottom of the graver to start with.
I hope this makes sense.
I hope this makes sense.
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