Question: Bent gravers

[scott99]

I was wondering who might sell bent gravers flat or knife, all I seem to find on line is bent liners. :thinking:

scott99

 

[Brian Marshall]

You learn to bend them hot, harden and then temper them yourself.

Or simply grind the blank into a "bent" shape...

Knife gravers are pretty fragile - why do you need a bent one?


Brian

 

[Sam]

I'm wondering if adding more heel lift is all you need to do on your flats. The reason liners are bent is because they can't be heeled, so bending them creates more lift.

 

[scott99]

Thanks

I have a few very old gravers(100 + years old )from when my Granfather (long since passed) used them in die sinking, and found them usefull in deep tight spaces. These are more of a legacy than something to be used up so I wanted to try and get replacments.

I will in fact try adusting the heels on some gravers to see if that does the trick, I still don't think far enough with my graver shapes but am learning. I have been making tools for many years and for some reason I still get fouled up thinking of gravers. I grind other stuff in 1000 ways but when I get to gravers I stiill put them on a pedestal or something.

The reason I am looking for tight spot knife gravers has more to do with carving Nesuke than engraving.

Thanks for the help again.
scott99

 

[James Roettger]

Worse that can happen is the temper is off a bit, too soft and the tip bends back, too hard and it chips. Only takes 5 minutes to correct a bad temper by redoing the hardening process and it builds confidence in the process.

 

[silverchip]

You can make gravers with a lift by soldering a piece of carbide on the end of mild steel and then shaping them to your hearts content. This is one way to relieve the back so it doesn't drag or get caught on someplace that is sticking up like an overlay ect. and you can work it in a concave area ect.

 

[scott99]

graver heel

Hi, I have tryed some different heel angles and found that a 45 degree face with 30 degree heel solved the problem on this job.

Thanks for the heel advice Sam.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice. :bow:

scott99

 

[axeman11]

Whoa moment...i say silver chip has the answer, silver soldering carbide to the end, offset. don't have to worry about temper. good advise and one i will put in the long term memory banks...that was a really bossanova response SC.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Certain carbides do not work as well as others...

They get REALLY brittle at over 1.000 degree silver brazing temperatures. Chip almost instantly - even on precious metals. Once again - "Guess how I know?"

Another thing I've learned, ya gotta let 'em air cool if you solder carbide to 'em. Quenching is a no no...


Brian

 

[silverchip]

I didn't say that my method was perfect but I have been making these kind of tools ever since I worked part time in a carbide tip router manufacturer shop part time 25 yrs ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Brian Marshall]

Dave,

The carbide I used that kept shattering was from a major engraving supplier who shall remain nameless...

I never said it wasn't a good idea!

Just that it can (and did for me) go wrong once. I've got a dozen or so others that've never had a problem... don't use them daily, but often enough.

I had the bright idea of putting the tips on double bent inside ring gravers. Thought it would save me time sharpening 'cause I only use those on gold. Instead I learned a few new variations on old swear words when I went to use them. Had to make a whole new set from a "better" quality/grade of carbide.

And many many many years ago I learned not to quench them. Carbide don't like quenching Try it and see for yourself


B.

 

[axeman11]

Handy and Hardman ez-flow 45 cadmium solder for lower temps. Or Brownells has a low temp solder that I forget the name of.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Stay the hell away from cadmium in ANY solder!


My cancer was caused by 20+ years of exposure to it while soldering. It gases off right at the melting point and you breathe it. I did not have a very good ventilation hood at the time. None of us did back then. There was no warning in those days. We used solid asbestos bench tops too. No one knew.

It was supposed to have been banned, but I see that they are sneaking it into to the "easy" solders again. It damned sure better come with a warning now !


The Brownells stuff is called "Brownells Hi-Force". At least that is what the label says on mine. It is a silver bearing solder made with tin. 4% silver 96% tin according to the label. Melts at 475 degrees. I used it once to replace a ventilated rib on a shotgun barrel. Worked well for that, but it will not wet or stick to carbide.


B.

 

[silverchip]

I use cad-free easy silver solder and a good paste flux. And yea, don't quench'em, they are so small that they air cool quick enough anyway.

 

[j.c.]

If you cannot bend the graver, bend the holder.
Had a need for a project, not pretty but worked for me.
Bend to whatever angle you are comfortable with that will do the job
at hand.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q17/burincloseups/1copy_zps0d3b04f6.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q17/burincloseups/4_zps261a8cff.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q17/burincloseups/2_zps8cbc0ae8.jpg
j.c.