Question: Rolex watch cases

Marcus Hunt · Feb 3, 2011

I was just wondering if anyone has cut a stainless Rolex watch case? If so, how did it cut? I've a client who is showing interest and was wondering if I need to order a batch of C-Max or whether HSS will cut it. I know the clasps can be very tough (done those before) but don't know about the case.

silverchip · Feb 3, 2011

Hi Marcus,

Definitely use carbide.

Tim Wells · Feb 3, 2011

I've cut a few with M42 cobalt gravers never HSS though. They cut fine. Rolex has changed their stainless formulations over the years so it depends when it was made as to what series of SS they used.

mitch · Feb 3, 2011

Hi Marcus-

It also depends on whether it's a REAL Rolex. One would certainly hope that anyone coming to someone like you for engraving would own the real deal, but fake "Rollers" have virtually become a clichÃ© in the world of counterfeit goods. My wife used to work in a jewelry store and of all the makes they serviced (and they were a certified Rolex dealer), they absolutely refused to verify/acknowledge that any Rolex brought in was legit. With those, they would take a few photos with the owner present to document that the watch they were given was the one they returned after service. This was done to protect themselves against charges of switching a real one for a fake. Apparently there was a spate of these scams in years past across the country.

Sam · Feb 3, 2011

Authentic Rolex cases are made of 904 stainless steel. Fakes are machined from 316L which is the standard of the watchmaking industry and really tough stuff for engraving. I'm not sure how it compares to 904 because I've not cut a Rolex case, although I've been tempted to engrave mine. Keep us posted, Marcus.

As a side note about fakes, the only way to verify is to examine the movement as fakes have either low-beat Chinese movements or Swiss ETA 28.8 movements, neither of which looks anything like a Rolex movement. The cases themselves can be nearly impossible to detect without disassembly.

In one of the latest scams, an original Rolex movement is taken from a less desirable model such as a Datejust and installed into a fake Submariner case. Upon examination by the untrained eye it appears to be all original.

I found this via Google:

-------
What kind of Stainless Steel does Rolex use in their watch cases?

While most high-end watch companies utilize 1.4435 (or 316L) Stainless Steel, Rolex uses 1.4439 (or 904L) Stainless Steel. While they both have the same grade of hardness, 904L has a slighytly higher nickel discharge, and thus a slightly higher resistance to corrosion. 904L is mainly used in industry applications handling chlorides, sulfer dioxide gas or other toxic materials. While this may sound like overkill for use with wristwatches, it's just another exaple of over'engineering on the part of Rolex where only the best will do.
---------

j.c. · Feb 3, 2011

Marcus,

My last post regarding titanium went un-commented on, so it is with some hesitation that I interject a comment to this question.

That being said, here goes, what ever you used to cut the clasp will work just fine on the cases. The clasps are â€œstampedâ€, thus â€œwork hardenedâ€.

The cases are machined from a solid block of SS. They are â€œtoughâ€, but do not pose a problem for the yellow or red tanged HSS material, or M42 which by the way is also a HSS. It doesnâ€™t matter the formula of the SS the case is manufactured from; it is simply a non-magnetic SS... (much tougher than â€œwimpyâ€ magnetic SS).

I have cut this material or similar every day for the past 17 years with no problems.

Having been a certified watch maker for 40 years, Mitch does bring up a good point, pictures, before and after should be a must. That brand is not the only brand being heavily counterfeited.

One last comment here, save yourself potential grief, and have a competent watch maker disassemble the various case components before you start.

j.c.

Andrew Biggs · Feb 3, 2011

That's a good call from j.c..............get a good watchmaker to take the watch apart and put it back together again. It will save you a lot of grief. It shouldn't cost very much. Don't even think about engraving it in one piece.

I haven't cut a Rolex but if the metal is similar to 316L this is what I do.

I've had the best luck with Glensteel gravers with a 120 giving the best cuts. They blunt and round off and you can keep cutting a bit longer before sharpening. The carbides tend to break catastrophically and once the tip is broken you have to resharpen immediately.............and you will sharpen more than usual.

Lube will also help a lot with 316, especially if using something like a 90 for the shading cuts. It preserves the tip and makes a cleaner cut.

You may also find that wet and dry sanding may be required after the main cuts and shading cuts...................depending on the metal that Rolex uses of course. I use well worn 800 after the main cuts and 2000 grit after the shading cuts finally finishing off with some green polishing cloth. Back the sanding paper with something solid like a small stone and use plenty of lube. Not much sanding will be required but depending on the metal the cuts can leave the surface a bit ragged.

One thing is for sure. The metal will probably feel a lot different from the gun metal that you are used to.

Cheers
Andrew

fegarex · Feb 3, 2011

Yes,
It reminds me of an old saying not heard much anymore..
"Only a fool and a jeweler take the back off a watch".
Rex

Peter E · Feb 3, 2011

Cheap fakes can be spotted instantly, if the second hand moves a full second at a time, as quartz movements do.

Authentic ones, the second hand moves in very small increments, as "automatic" or "self-winding" watches do.

MANY years ago, I was on vacation in France and took an excursion to Geneva. The ROLEX building was very prominent nearby the lake. I had lusted for a Submariner for years!

Me, thinking I would get a good buy on a Rolex watch, proceeded to check out the prices. It was MORE to buy one in Switzerland than in the USA :shock:

That was before the Euro, and in France, the exchange was 9.5 -10 francs for a dollar. In Switzerland, 3.5 Swiss francs for a dollar. Even Swiss chocolate was less expensive in France!

Marcus Hunt · Feb 3, 2011

Thanks for your input guys. JC, I seem to remember you giving the advice about removing the movement once before, some years ago. I remembered this and told the client he must remove the movement before I can engrave it. As he's a dealer in high end watches there is no problem with this and I don't think he'd ruin his reputation by selling fakes. I'm glad to hear it's cuttable and am quite excited by the project.

JC and Andrew, I was wondering if HSS might be the way to go because sometimes carbide can be too brittle. Have either of you tried C-Max of other forms of carbide on watches? If so, what do you think of the results you got from it compared to high speed?

PS, please accept my sincere apologies for overlooking your reply to my Ti question JC, it was very helpful and I don't know how I overlooked replying to it. Sorry

Andrew Biggs · Feb 3, 2011

My personal experience with carbides is not that good on watches...............but that is just me because other people's experiences differ. It could simply be because my technique is slightly different or I'm holding my tongue the wrong way or because the sparrows are flying east that day...............who knows???

At the end of the day there is only one way to find out.

If you need a hand with how to jig it up I can show you what works for me. It's down and dirty but seems to work OK.. There are probably better ways but I just don't know what they are. It all depends on the shape of the watch.

Cheers
Andrew

Haraga.com · Feb 3, 2011

I have cut them with 5% cobalt. No problems.

j.c. · Feb 4, 2011

Marcus,

No problem missing my other post, apologies are certainly not needed.

I agree somewhat with Andrew here on carbidesâ€¦ â€œsparrows flying east that dayâ€â€¦I like that.

The answer from me regarding carbides is â€¦NO there is no need and hence no real use for the carbides on watches or anything else as small as a watch. Carbides may have their uses on firearms, however with their attendant problems, this then begs the question why bother? I have cut very hard SS cylinders on various pistols over the years using HSS.

â€œGlen steelâ€, â€œM42â€, the yellow tang â€œValorbeâ€ graver materials are all HSSâ€¦there are others also. I do not know their exact formulas and do not care; they are all close enough in how they react to my engraving. They will dull but so what? Sharpen it and continue. The point does not break unless the technique that is being employed is â€œabusiveâ€.

I should clarify a bit when I said â€œno useâ€ for carbidesâ€¦I do have a â€œcmaxâ€ which has become a nice burnisher and a â€œcarbaltâ€ that is now a proper â€œscorperâ€.

Have at it with your usual â€œaplombâ€ and you should experience no insurmountable difficulties.

j.c.

Marcus Hunt · Feb 4, 2011

Thanks for your replies guys. It's an exciting new venture for me and, because I have no experience of watch engraving, I just thought I'd ask just in case there is something to be aware of. I'd really like to see your jig Andrew. Seeing how others do things is ways a good starting point. The reason I asked about carbide, JC, was just because I wasn't quite sure of the make up of watch cases. Personally, I don't really care too much for it. Like you I prefer the graver to dull rather than break off which I find happens with carbide when the NZ butterflies beat their wings!

allen · Feb 4, 2011

Just a note of caution about Rolex. They fiercely defend their warranty.

If the customer cares about the warranty staying intact, be sure before you have someone disassemble the case for engraving, call Rolex first on the process. In my experience, Rolex is very touchy about this sort of thing and only a Rolex certified tech may do this. Which means, it will have to be sent to Rolex.

Regards,
Allen

Christian DeCamillis · Feb 4, 2011

Marcus,
I will have available in about two more weeks a HSS steel graver that I am producing made especially for Stainless. Alexander Sideroff tested them for me and he said it was perfect. He is using them for setting stainless watches. They are sharpened as an onglette. which is a fragile point. they work well for him.
A friend of mine who is a metallurgist came up with the formula for the heat treating which is the most significant factor. He said that even the manufacturer of the steel can make a difference even if their the same grade.
With stainless you need the right balance of hardness and toughness.
I agree that carbide is not the answer. M42 can work good depending on the mfg and the heat treat. As JC pointed out the HSS will dull but this is better than breakage.

I have found that it's better not to polish the the graver for cutting SS and you will do much better with some lube. even spit is better than nothing. I find tap magic to be the best for me. I use the normal one not the one for aluminum. The other thing that seems to work best is to use a lower face angle like about 50 degrees rather than 60 which is what is normally done to make a stronger point.

I will post them in my store on my site when they arrive. i don't have an exact figure for pricing but somewhere in the neighbor hood of ten dollars should be about what they will sell for. they will be 3/32 or 2.35 mm square.
I will send you one to try so you can decide if you like them.

Chris

Marcus Hunt · Feb 4, 2011

Thanks Chris, that sounds great!

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Feb 4, 2011

I’m testing one of these new HSS graver I got from Chris on stainless steel. Used it highly polished both face and heel without a radius on the point of the graver.
Tomorrow I will try it on a piece of stainless steel I have put away because it was to hard to engrave without spending more time on sharpening than cutting.
I will try that piece of Stainless tomorrow with this new HHS graver from Chris and share my experience whit it here.
One thing for sure, it cuts the Stainless I used much better than a GRS Glensteel.
I have some old used stainless watch cases I will try too, just to find out. I agree the C-Max does not work properly on Stainless Steel. I can cut a whole Titanium bracelet design with a C-Max without re-sharpening, but I agree Titanium cuts like butter, even the high grade.

I come back on this tomorrow,

arnaud

Keith · Feb 4, 2011

Peter E,
The fakes they sell now in chinatown, NYC have the same sweep style hand that real rolex has. they copied that too. and all for 30 bucks....

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Feb 4, 2011

Keith said:
Peter E,
The fakes they sell now in chinatown, NYC have the same sweep style hand that real rolex has. they copied that too. and all for 30 bucks....

Who likes fakes?

not only because it is not allowed.

arnaud

Question: Rolex watch cases

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