Help, please: darkening the relief cut

what is the best compound to use to darken the relief cut that will stay, i have seen sharpie markers used but it wears away quickly, thanks in advance

What is the metal??

What is the canvas (gun, watch, ring, knife etc )???

Will the item be worn or used a lot or sit in a display cabinet???

Those are the things that dictate the answer

Cheers
Andrew

metals

various, some aluminum, some brass, and some other metals, some store bought knives, just to get some practice engraving done, i guess most of what i am doing will be used, i am making money clips from brass and aluminum, i can probably figure out how to post some pics in the forum but i do have some pics in the Misc. album

The most effective thing I have used personally is what you call "rustoleum" paint. (I've probably spelt that wrong)

It's an oil based house type paint. I use flat black but down here in NZ we have different brand names but it's all the same thing.

It cleans up easily and dries hard.

Cheers
Andrew

thank you

thank you i will try it, i know what you are referring to, i guess you wipe off the excess leaving it in the areas that you want dark, then allow to dry.:thumbs up:

yip, that's it...........I wipe off with photocopy paper first and then just use my thumb. It's just a bit cleaner on the hands that way.

The next day after it's dried off it pays to check as you always leave little bit that need to be tidied up.

Cheers
Andrew

thank you much

No worries.

You'll find that different engravers will use a wide variety of "blackeners" for backgrounds.

They all work and it's just a matter of what you like using the best. Once you start getting into metals like silver you can think about liver of sulphur etc. So there is a great variety of things that can be used.

Felt tip pens work but probably not good for heavily used items that are handled a lot.

Cheers
Andrew

I do the paint like Andrew described, but I don't use the paper to remove it. Just use my thumb and finger.

Can someone tell me how to use the Liver of Sulphur for silver?

Thanks

Joe

Joe the liver of sulphur.......

Joe the liver of sulphur directions are usually provided with the bottle the solution comes with.

Hi Joe

With liver of sulphur you can carefully paint it in.......which is time consuming and you still get creepage.

Or you can cover the whole item...........and very lightly sand back the surface with 2000 grit or higher.

Those are the two things I have played with and there are probabley other ways I don't know about involving solvents or something.

Whatever you do.............experiment first on a bit of scrap with something cut into it. Don't try it on an actual job till you see exactley what it does

Cheers
Andrew

I have a can of liver of sulphur and it is clumps about the size of marbles. The instructions says the liver of sulphur or the silver should be warm and thats all. What I would like to know is how to get the liver of sulphur into a liquid form. Can I mix it with or water or maybe something else? Should it be brought to a boil when heating it? Just a little confused about this.

Thanks for your help.

Joe

Hi Joe

Can't help you there sorry. Mine was already liquid when I got it.

There's always somthing isn't there

Cheers
Andrew

Mix it with water - the longer it sits mixed - the stronger it gets - room temp. always worked for me. Jack - 8oz. can - I mixed with a gal. of water - after it sat for a yr.( I wasn't in a hurry to use it); it would turn silver Jet Black on contact.

Joe, Liver of sulfur will lose it's strength over time if exposed to too much humidity and sunlight. I had a can that went bad over time and the solutions you buy also have a shelf life.
Most of my work I like to give an antique look to the silver. I use this technique with liver of sulfur quite often. As Andrew said you can paint it on in spots but a real pain, I would use a 100w. light bulb to help "warm" the silver. Most of the time I'll run tap water as hot as possible an immerse the piece or pieces, once they are to temp I'll drop in a small piece of the sulfur and lightly stir with a stick if multiple piece are in the solution. The workpiece must be clean and de-greased for the best results. Watch closely and remove into cold water to help stop the reaction of oxides. At this point the whole piece is black, I will then use a rag wheel buff to to highlight the piece without rounding edges too much. Tripoli on a hard wheel will cut very fast but will soften the edges quickly and cuts too much for my taste in the finish. Either way will work one is faster than the other and you must remember to keep the piece moving constantly while using a wheel. Another way is to use Neverdull or Semichrome polish and clean the tarnish back with either one, the cuts remain black and the rest of the surface can be polished without rounding sharp edges too much, the final step is to hand buff with a polishing cloth. You'll find that Liver of sulfur will go through a few colors before you get to black and the black is a gray black as seen on antique silver. Another way to heat the piece if you don't have materials critical to heat, would be to use a hot air gun. I use a Wagner two stage paint stripper gun, I'll use this on my rifles ..........but be very careful due to burning the wood, it is a slow process to heat, say an inlay, and you want to keep the solution off the wood as best as possible.
Hope that helps if you have any questions I could help you with feel free to drop me a line.
Mark

I use liver of sulphur all the time.
I put a pea sized piece in a mug half filled with hot water and let it dissolve. then I gently heat the silver with a propane flame and apply the solution with a q-tip or toothpick. let dry and clean up with 3m polishing paper.

the heating of the metal makes it black. without heating you can get all sorts of colors (but not very predictably)

Something I've found helpful is cold gun bluing which you can find at your local sporting goods stores that sell guns, knives, and other archaic implements of destruction.

I haven't yet learned what it responds to but it acts similar to liver of sulfur. I just put some on a Q-tip and just barely wet the whole piece. Getting it too wet will cause it to chip off and reveal fresh metal so just a very thin coat is best and it will turn dark right before your eyes (but make sure the metal is atleast slightly warm).

So far it works on brass, nickel silver (German silver), copper, steel of course (probably wouldn't work on most stainless alloys) and I'm not sure what else yet. I can't remember if it works on sterling... it atleast darkened it somewhat. I'm very glad I purchased it and it should last forever for the small stuff I work on.

I've used liver of sulfur and had a little container with some big chunks of it. I probably bought it in 2007. When I went to use it some time last year it was totally exhausted of its darkening powers. :beat up:

You Can Also Use Stageing Ink. Its A Really Dark Black Permanent Ink Used In Printing. You Mix It About 5% Ink To 95% Acetone. Clean The Object With Acetone, Then Just Paint On The Ink Solution And The Acetone Dries Off Almost Immediately Leaving A Dull Black Background. Keep The Solution In A Sealed Jar And Shake It Up Before Use. I've Been Told It Will Withstand Hot Bluing, So It Is Permanent.

Thanks guy, this is some great information. So many ways to black the silver. I have used paint, but don't think it would hold up under a lot of wear. I know the liver of sulfur does hold up well. I have some of the printer ink. I use it all the time and it is tough on 416, but did not know about the use on silver.

I made my granddaughters bracelets for Christmas and wanted to black in the cuts, but decided to leave it bright cut.

This is a great thread. Thanks Msid21 for starting it.

Joe