Tam O shanter stone

Dave London · Jan 4, 2011

Marcus
I sent a couple of PM,s but it appears they did not go through. So can you supply a source of ithe tam O shanter stones. Thanks Dave London :beerchug:

rod · Jan 4, 2011

Dave,

I will recite Tam o' Shanter at a Burns Supper soon, but have never tried the stone.

Let me know if you are successful?

Rod

Sam · Jan 4, 2011

They're also called water stones, water of ayr stones, or Scotch stones if you're searching for them, Dave. I've used them in the past for stoning gold. McKenzie got me using them back in the day, but quite honestly, I find synthetic stones to work better without loading up with gold. Plus for gun engraving water isn't the best choice as a stoning liquid, but they might work with lamp oil just as well. Of course I didn't ask you what you were planning to use them for...just assumed it was for stoning off gold.

Sorry for the ramble / ~Sam

Marcus Hunt · Jan 5, 2011

Sam, the main reason for using Water of Ayr stone on an inlay is that it cuts down all metals at the same rate. This means that the harder steel and soft inlay will smooth out without the soft gold dipping. Do the synthetic stones achieve this? If they do I'd like to try them, what stones do you recommend?

Sam · Jan 5, 2011

Marcus: I use the rapid breakdown stones from Gesswein. Water of Ayr stones worked fine but loaded with bits of gold which I found troublesome. I use 320, 400, and 600 grit stones from Gesswein. I believe there are part #'s for them in the Tips Archive. I'll have a look. I can stone without the gold dipping.

McKenzie liked the Water of Ayr stones because they didn't scratch the steel as much.

mitch · Jan 5, 2011

"I can stone without the gold dipping."

another example of the many things we say that sound like secret code in a bad spy movie....

"Come in, MotherGoose. Can you recite Tam O' Shanter at a Burns supper soon?"

"Yes, I can stone without the gold dipping."

Brian Hochstrat · Jan 5, 2011

Marcus Hunt said:
Sam, the main reason for using Water of Ayr stone on an inlay is that it cuts down all metals at the same rate. This means that the harder steel and soft inlay will smooth out without the soft gold dipping. Do the synthetic stones achieve this? If they do I'd like to try them, what stones do you recommend?

I am not sure why having a stone cut the steel at the same rate as the gold would be a good thing. Seems that you would loose a lot of steel while surfacing down your gold. The hardness of a stone is what makes it not dip the gold, same principle of why you back sandpaper when doing the higher polishes
The gesswein Mold Maker stones cut the gold fast and resist loading, but the finer grits, like 600, do load some and can scratch, the Super Soft stones they sell, seem to cut slower but do not load at all being they breakdown so fast, so they work well for the finer grits. The ceramic Super stones are good stones as well, but are expensive. My 2 cents.

Sam · Jan 5, 2011

You need a secret decoder ring to decrypt what's said in this forum.

Sam · Jan 5, 2011

Like oil of wintergreen, Tam O'Shanter/Water of Ayr stones have an old world mystique in their names that many find irresistible, including myself. I'm not saying they're not the best thing for the job. They worked ok but I didn't see anything extra special about them.

Unless he's changed, Churchill still uses sandpaper wrapped around a stick for his gold inlays.

Kevin P. · Jan 5, 2011

Marcus in lapidary there is a phenomenon called 'undercutting' which shows up with some stones like 'lapis' where the texture of the lapis is inconsistent resulting in a surface that is almost like 'orange peel'.
The solution is to use a cutting agent that is hard, unyielding. It's softer cutting agents that allow undercutting.
I would think the same principle applies to gold inlayed in steel. If you use good quality grit papers backed or wrapped around some hard wood you'd get good results.
One caveat: the process doesn't allow for flexible papers or materials. The cutting agents work best for undercutting when least flexible. What I said above about wrapping around hard wood is a last resort.

Rio Grande and Gesswein supply to jewelers. There are some materials known to jewelers and lapidarys that aren't commonly known. Abrasives come to mind.
Some cross pollination might be helpful.
Kevin P.

Dave London · Jan 5, 2011

Thanks all
Sam yes for stoning gold inlay and less scratching, I just have not found them any where on the net. The one I have left has the price of 1$ on it . also I use the stoning oil with it no h2o
Marcus any suppliers you know of

Christian DeCamillis · Jan 5, 2011

Dave, I sell stones for stoning gold on my site. there boride stones. Like SAM said there softer stones that break down. they won't dip your gold and if you use wd 40 for your stoning oil. You will not have any scratches even in the finer grit. I use 320 then 400. I have six hundred as well. Normally you don't need any higher than that.

I have used scotch stones with oil for gold and they work ok. they do occasionally hold some gold and then gaul the gold.

My personal opinion is that the stones which are die stones are the best whether you use gessweins or the one I have. I have found that wd 40 is the best to use. I have tried a lot of different lubes for this and it seems to be the best. I keep the stones stored in a container filled with the wd 40. As someone else said in another thread.wd is a good cleaner. I know people who use it to clean there shotguns. It really keeps the gold from sticking to the stones as well along with the more rapid break down of the stones.

Chris

Dave London · Jan 5, 2011

Thanks Chris
I will be in touch soon .Dave :beerchug:

Aventuraal · Jan 6, 2011

I recall reading somewhere that the quarry that mined the Tam O'Shanter stones has been closed, which would explain the lack of availability through the usual suppliers. I guess the only sources now are new, old stock vendors.

Jim Kelso · Jan 8, 2011

I've used the Water Of Ayr stones as well as various Gesswein and find no advantage to the natural stone. I do enjoy using them for the mystique and pleasure of using a natural material, which is not nothing. They are limited to essentially one grit whereas you can get man-made stones in a huge range of grits as well as break-down rates. I'm working in mostly non-ferrous and iron (not steel) and find the Gesswein stones very useful. I always use water as oil residues play hell with the patinas I use.

The Scotch stones are very hard to find. There seems to be conflicting information about whether the quarry has re-opened.

Here's a photo of the quarry:

Dave London · Jan 8, 2011

Thanks Jim
Good info, I will get the man made stuff , just though it would be neat to get the old stuff.
Also are you coming to COMA this year :beerchug:

hybridfiat · Jan 8, 2011

Has anyone toyed with using slips of Japanese waterstones?
I've made one that is 19mm by 5mm by 100mm for polishing out of a fine grade of Nagura. It chiped off a stone I stupidly dropped on a concrete floor. Fortunately only a small piece was damaged.
It works quite well. But it has made me wonder if I diamond sawed a peice off the ends of the others if they are as good as Water of Ayr stones. I have no WoA so I cant compare.

Jim Kelso · Jan 9, 2011

Dave London said:
Thanks Jim
Good info, I will get the man made stuff , just though it would be neat to get the old stuff.
Also are you coming to COMA this year

Hi Dave. I wouldn't want to discourage you from using the natural stone if you can find them. There is a certain "magic" to using earth based materials. I found a stream bed of useful fine slate last summer which has been fun.

I'm afraid I'm going to miss COMA this year. I have to visit my grandkids so they'll still recognize me!

Jim

Peter E · Jan 9, 2011

This was a fascinating video from another post. The artist uses one of the 'water of ayr' stones to put a mirror finish on the cast billet.

It really is a fantastic process to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ironbrush#p/u/0/wGMj7o6AwnM

dlilazteca · Oct 17, 2014

Christian DeCamillis said:
Dave, I sell stones for stoning gold on my site. there boride stones. Like SAM said there softer stones that break down. they won't dip your gold and if you use wd 40 for your stoning oil. You will not have any scratches even in the finer grit. I use 320 then 400. I have six hundred as well. Normally you don't need any higher than that.

I have used scotch stones with oil for gold and they work ok. they do occasionally hold some gold and then gaul the gold.

My personal opinion is that the stones which are die stones are the best whether you use gessweins or the one I have. I have found that wd 40 is the best to use. I have tried a lot of different lubes for this and it seems to be the best. I keep the stones stored in a container filled with the wd 40. As someone else said in another thread.wd is a good cleaner. I know people who use it to clean there shotguns. It really keeps the gold from sticking to the stones as well along with the more rapid break down of the stones.

Chris

Just leave it there very interesting.

Tam O shanter stone

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