Difficulty with stainless

hybridfiat · Oct 28, 2010

I have been trying to improve my technique and drawing. Ive been practising bright and transition cuts plus some drawing of scrolls which I am very bad at. Also Ive been doing some practice cutting on little squares of stainless to make fridge magnets for freinds so the work isnt wasted. I cannot seem to cut this stuff!
I started with some pieces cut from a length of 4" angle iron. But that was very inconsistant in its hardness, leading to fast and slow, deep and then shallow cuts.
So I made some sheet metal (318) plates and tried them

No go. The chip piles up and the graver gets bogged down. Or it fails to cut deep enough then digs its way to China. I use carbault gravers sharpened on diamond hones with the Lindsay system of templates. Ive the standard tip, the 90 degree and the knife/flat in 3 different widths
To say Im discouraged is an understatement

If I go back to my well scratched black steel plates all is well. It is dream to cut.
Do you have any advice?
Thanks for all to stuff you blokes post here it is a goldmine:thumbs up:

Dave London · Oct 28, 2010

Seems to be your choise of metal most 300 series SS is not very good for engraving stick with 416, or the tool steels :beerchug:

monk · Oct 28, 2010

yes. go to your local junk yard with a magnet. usually any species of ss that will stick to a mag, is soft enough to engrave. most yards have truckloads of small , odd pieces of this stuff that is good for pracice. since it's scrap, the price is usually quite affordable. even so, try using a bit of lube and a steeper face angle will help avoid point breakage. another aid is to use a slightly wider point. instead of say a 90, try 110. 120 degrees is even stronger, but may be more difficult for you to control.

Andrew Biggs · Oct 28, 2010

Save yourself a lot of greif and go to GRS and buy their stainless 416 keytags or some of their 416 rectangular plates. They are a dream to cut and great wee project peices............and it's cheap

Cheers
Andrew

filbertius · Oct 28, 2010

and if you practice on the keytags, you may end with with items which are gift-able or (heaven forbid) sell-able...
Gary

hybridfiat · Oct 28, 2010

Wow thanks for the advice. So quick!
Ill do just that Monk, Im on break next week so scrap metal merchants here I come. Ill check the prices on GRS too Andrew.
Im relieved to hear it isnt me. Phew

MICHAEL · Oct 29, 2010

Hello Hybridfiat.

I have been engraving the GRS 2"x2" practice plates with the idea of attaching a magnet. Like Andrew said, they cut beautifully. GRS also has 2"x4" practice plates. Have you found a suitable magnet? I remember someone posting about using rare earth magnets and checked the website. I thought I would see what people have used that worked before spending my money. Good luck with your project!:thumbs up:

Mike Fennell · Oct 29, 2010

You have received good advice.

I believe you also will find, as you continue to practice, that point breakage will become less frequent no matter what you are cutting.

As technique improves we are less likely to put side-forces into the tip. The hammer force must flow straight down the shaft of the graver through the tip. In the tighter scrolls, sometimes we get ahead of, or behind, the curve, with the result that we begin to put a sideways force upon the tip of the graver. When this happens, the shaft of the graver acts as a long lever, with the side of the cut the fulcrum, and the fragile tip of the graver receives a sideways force from the opposing side of the cut that fractures it. Often it is this side-force, more than the hardness of the material, that causes a graver tip to break.

It also seems to happen more often coming out of a tight cut than when going into a tight cut. Sometimes cutting the scroll from the tight end back toward the beginning, or cutting backwards, can help avoid breaking the tip. I think I first heard that said by Barry Lee Hands., or it may have been Roger Bleile.

The good news is that, with practice, this too will pass.

Mike Fennell

Peter E · Oct 29, 2010

As far as magnets go, there are many of them free for the taking. Shower liners typically have several round magnets in the bottom that work for determining ferrous metals quite well.

Also, for anyone that has Sonicare electronic toothbrushes, there are two "rare earth" magnets in every brush head. Those tiny little suckers are STRONG!

DKanger · Oct 29, 2010

Chris DeCamillus has practice plates for sale on his website at reasonable pricing compared to others. He has copper, steel, brass, and I think he recently added stainless.
http://www.engraversstudio.com

monk · Oct 29, 2010

to all concerned: my advice on the use of scrap metal of any specie, is intended only for those of very limited cutting skill. by all means, when the time comes, every effort should be made to engrave items that will be appreciated by others. who better to buy from than the people who participate on and support this forum. and the companies and individuals that invest money to develop the tools we like to use.

hybridfiat · Oct 29, 2010

Thanks for all the advice. I found a small peice of SS (400) yesterday and was all ready to go when a bloke developed chest pain and I had to spend valuble cutting time in the medical centre and then on the road. Tonight Ill get stuck in.

I have some rare earth magnets from dealextreeme.com they offer free shipping worldwide and the magnets are cheap. They arent as good as the ones from computer harddrives but they are very strong.
Ill do a bit of playing around and then post some practice. Im getting Ron Smith's scroll book for christmas, till then Ill scratch away and use pre-prepared scrolls printed up on baking paper.
Thanks for the help
Steve

PS; I agree Monk and that is why I slowly replaced all my home made gravers and bits with proprietary tools from GRS and Steve Lindsay. I have a nice ball vice on the way as of today. I will get the prac plates etc book from GRS. Next year is the year of the Lindsay Classic. Id apreciate the virtues of the GRS gear as extolled by many members here but I need something very compact that I can put in a travel bag every week that runs off a small (5l) BA cylinder.

Roger B · Oct 29, 2010

I put a call out earlier to try to get a source for 400 series stainless in Oz but got not one reply - I'm not saying that we don't have it here but I didn't see it mentioned on the steel supplier websites nor did I hear from fellow engravers in Oz.

Roger :beat up:

hybridfiat · Oct 30, 2010

We have about 100,000 tons of SS here in the plant but it is all 300 series. Ive been through the scrap pile and the recycle bins. Dont worry, Im happy to get the stuff from GRS. At least I know then that any difficulty I have is me not the material.

BrianPowley · Oct 30, 2010

For what it's worth: If you are new (or fairly new) to engraving, stainless steel in any grade is probably a poor choice to learn on.
Even in the machining trades, stainless steel demands different thinking.

There's plenty of low(er) carbon steels to perfect your skills on...and they can make pretty nice 'fridge magnets too. They can be painted, chromed,blued...

The GRS key fobs are good quality/value.

A seasoned weightlifter doesn't start out with the real heavy stuff.

hybridfiat · Oct 30, 2010

True Brian but Id like to have a go anyway. Nothing ventured nothing gained. If it is too hard Ill go back to black steel till I can cope with the challange.
I do other materials. Im planning a dogtag for my son for Christmas It's solid 3mm silver (all I have) and will be a deep leaf script monogram. Then a bloke at work has got me to do the gear shift pattern on a 10c coin (domed and polished). Im inlaying some shakudo, copper and brass into a steel tsuba Ive made.

BrianPowley · Oct 30, 2010

hybridfiat---you'll do OK, just remember that (some sort of) carbide will be your best choice for stainless steel....and will break frequently.
HS steel will just dull rapidly.
My cousin Christine lives in Perth. Say Hi to her first chance you get. Ha,Ha.

hybridfiat · Oct 30, 2010

No worries mate. All I have is Carbalt Gravers
Is she good looking?

Ever thought of visiting? Got plenty of room up here in the hills :beerchug:

BrianPowley · Oct 31, 2010

I haven't been to Australia/New Zealand for 20 years---I certainly need to re-visit.
I am first generation American. All of my family comes from Scotland. 1/3 stayed in the "old country", 1/3 came to the U.S., 1/3 emigrated to Australia.
I have relatives in Melbourne and Perth.

Difficulty with stainless

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