Help, please: Working fulltime as an engraver

Hello everyone!

I have been presented with a huge oppertunity as an engraver. :big grin:I have been accepted into a workshop with 11 other artisans, most of whom are goldsmiths. I presented some of my practice plates to the man in charge, and he, together with the other guys at the workshop found my skills impressive enough to accept me. How this job works is I have my own company, rent space with the workshop. I have to aquire my own clients, but the other goldsmiths will give me some work (engraving jewelry they repair and so on).

I have not been engraving for a long time, and I am worried that my work will not be adequate... Even though I've gotten the approval of several goldsmiths..

My biggest concern is that the job will be quite boring. Here in Norway we don't get to engrave fun pieces like guns and the like that you in the states do. Over here the general population don't know what engravings look like, and they think that text is the only thing that can be engraved. There is little I can do to change that sadly.

I talked with an engraver I know, and the outcome of the conversation with him made me quite depressed.
He told me I REALLY should get a real education. And I have to engrave for 10 years before I can engrave anything worthwhile. He also told me the gravermax is plain cheating. Most of this is quite contradicory(?) with what I've read you guys think... This engraver is quite old fashioned, but is he right?

Now, summer 2012 both the local engravers are retiring. This SHOULD make available quite alot of clients, as these two engravers are all there are in my half of the country!

Is this something I should risk trying for?

Steinar: The fact that the goldsmiths were impressed with your work should tell you that your skills are "good enough" to work with them. It sounds like the engraver that painted the negative picture is worried about competition. He was very quick to "attack" your self-confidence, which makes me question the motive behind his comments. Technology (graver max) is not "cheating", it is a more efficient way to get the same results. It sounds like you are being presented with a good opportunity. If there is no long term contract locking you into paying rent if the situation does not pan out, then really, what do you have to lose? Any type of engraving work is only going to improve your skills while it gets your name out there. I would suggest doing small scale intensive engravings on bracelet and ring blanks to display what is available outside of "lettering" and educate your future customers! You may start a new trend in your area.

Wildfire Very Well-Stated

I think your point of view is right on the mark.

I agree that if the godsmiths were impressed enough, then that is what matters. I also agree that you should buy a sheet os Sterling Silver and make some bracelets, and some Sterling ring blanks, both band style and signet rings, to show the people what is available.

When other engravers tell me that using power is cheating, I ask them how they got to work that morning. For hundreds of years, Horses were the primary means of transportation, either ridden or pulling wagons, carts/sleighs etc. The other preferred means was walking. If they are modern enough to use a Car, or ride a Trolly, a Bus or a train, than they should move ahead in time and accept power assisted engraving.

Will

Cheers

Hello Steinar!
It is two years ago since i started to dig some holes and lines intensely into metal. I am really captivated by this art even when looking at the work of the engravers here.

I can remember my very first pieces and i remember too, i was mighty proud of them - i am still! But not because they are so felicitous - they aren't - no, rather they are my step into this. After this short time i can say, it was a good decision to enter the world of engraving.
Now i am standing in the front door and i believe to those, who say, it will take eight or ten years to touch the thing it self. The more i try it the more i esteem the work of this guys around here.

Like you i am a goldsmith. Since i work with a graver in this way i use it a lot more in my daily work and it has become a great help in various situations.

If you are ready to make a living by engraving, i can't answer that. About myself i am sure i am not. I can see that when i watch engravers (on the web, DVDs or pictures) I have to learn and practice many "engraver hours" more.

About the technical equipment - what counts, is the result. The customer normally don't ask, how you did it. If you deliver a good result with an air powered graver, why should it be less worth compared to a hand pushed graver?

Regards, Mario.

I don't know how the economy is over there, but it could be a lot better over here. This is the reality that isn't spoken much of on these forums .... besides, no-one wants to admit they are diversifying out of desperation.

I would not recommend that anyone attempt to go full time as an independent engraver in this economy however, there's security in numbers. The chance to work next to already established engravers and learn traditional hand-push engraving is a golden opportunity. This is the type of economy in which you perfect your skills while making contacts and this sounds like a great opportunity to do both. Being relatively new to engraving is a feather in your cap because you will learn from the more experienced much faster.



I am diversified (mostly by accident LOL!) and can tell you that jewelry engraving and lettering pays 100 times better than guns, knives and motorcycles. One day you will be back out on your own and lettering jewelry for a number of clients. With the speed and skill you learn through this opportunity, $5 to $7 per letter can turn into an excess of $100 or more per hour.

I look forward to the price of gold dropping to where folks can afford it again. That's the difference between being chained to the bench doing knives and motorcycles 7 days a week or taking long weekends and still having the excess cash to fund "soul" projects.

Best of luck,

Chris

p.s. The engraver you spoke with sounds old, crusty and as burned-out as I feel lately.

Steinar, congratulations on that, I can imagine you are very happy with that.

arnaud

Christopher Malouf said:

p.s. The engraver you spoke with sounds old, crusty and as burned-out as I feel lately.

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This is what sometimes happens here, they are that oldfashioned and afraid of competition they would never go into or talk about things like airtools.

I think it's a great oppertunity to speed up your skills.
Maybe sometimes with some sweaty hands but I would go for it.
Congratulations !!!
Willem

Hi Steinar

You have been offered a very unique opportunity. Nothing in life is ever guaranteed but one thing is for sure. If you don't walk through the door and find out for yourself, then you will never know what could be and you will always be left wondering what could have been.

The venture may succeed or fail but you will never know until you try. It will be hard work, challenging, frustrating and there will be moments when you doubt if you have made the right decision.............this is normal. The flip side of that is that it can also be exhilarating, enjoyable and financially rewarding. It can also give you the feeling being in control of your own affairs. But it isn't easy, it never is. There will be good times and bad. There will be very good times and very bad ones as well.

Sit down and do the math. Work out your expected income and expenditure and see if what you are left with is something you can live on..................then halve your income and double your expenditure and that will probably give you a truer estimation of your first years income. Most people do the math in the beginning over optimistically. If possible go to an evening class and do a small business course or get business books out of the library. The business side of things is never to be underestimated. But that knowledge is something you will grow into over time and experience.

Be very careful who you listen to for advise. There will be those that will expect you to fail and because of their own insecurities/experiences will almost be hoping that you will. By the same token there will be the over optimistic friends that will encourage you to do anything without any intelligent thought whatsoever. Try to strike a balance of friends and family that you can talk to and whose opinions you respect. Look up, not down!!!!

I can't advise you if the decision you are to make is a good one or a bad one. Only you know what you want in life and that even changes and evolves over time. But what I can tell you is that it is OK to follow your dreams and seize an opportunity and run with it. Many people don't because of fear and insecurity. My own philosophy is that fortune favors the bold. Sometimes you just have to run with your instincts and see where the tide takes you.

If the venture succeeds then that is great..............if it fails............then that is great as well. Failure is nothing to ever be ashamed of. It is just another stepping stone to something else.You will learn skills and other doors that you cannot see now will unexpectedly open for you. One thing leads to another and that is just part of life's journey.

As for the Gravermax being some sort of cheating, or you have to engrave for 10 years to engrave anything worthwhile. That is all crap and just a sideshow to the real game. It's just a distraction that is not even worth discussing.

Whatever your decision I wish you all the very best.

Cheers
Andrew

Steiner,

I am so excited for you!!! From all that you can garner from this forum, you inate skills, and a determination to succeed, you'll do great! Please keep us in the loop...

OBTW - How avatars does Malouf have?

Steinar,
You are a young man. Now is the time to take your risks because you have less to lose and it's easier to bounce back and start again if you fail. Youth is resilient. As you get older, acquire family obligations, a wife and kids, a house and mortgage, those risks/choices become much harder to make.

If you make your choice and succeed, you will never look back. If you fail, you can still start over. Often the best time to go into business is near the end of hard times because others have thrown in the towel and you are one of the few left when the boom hits again.

It's better to feel sorry for something you did than for something you didn't do!

Steiner, you have a great opportunity here. I would go for it and not look back if that is what you really want to do. The worst you will get from it is tremendous experience and the best is a great career. Listen to your heart and if this is what you want, then don't let this opportunity pass.

Bill

Hi Stiener, Don't pay too much attention to that old timer take only what you can use from what he says and throw away the rest. He comes from a different place and time in the trade of engraving.
Now we are going threw a great change in the field. No more hiding secrets of the craft we share openly and willingly. Cause we learned if we don't the art of engraving will die.
The age of the computer makes this possible we can now look over a masters shoulder and he will tell you how to do it. NOT LIKE THE OLD DAYS.
Jim Sackett

One thing with 11 goldsmiths in the shop you should be able to pick up all or most of the hand engraving from their accounts. As Andrew said about an air tool cheating that's crap talk. Cheating would be having someone else do the work and you say you did it. Go for it, one thing I'd like to give you something to think about is build a business not just a place to work every day.

Hello Steinar, You are so right asking for feedback from this forum. The very fact that the Cafe exists tells you that the rules of the game have changed. Our "old timers" have said that they started before CD's, engrave-ins, schools around the country and on-line classes but they are here right now on this Cafe ready, able and most importantly WILLING to share, teach and enjoy our art together. You have already taken the toughest step and that is to lay yourself open to review, and to recieve constructive suggestions from those "in the know". I hope you choose to accept the position realizing that there will be nay-sayers in all walks of life. Best to you!

"The ladder of success is always crouded at the bottom"

Steinar Fosback said:

My biggest concern is that the job will be quite boring. Here in Norway we don't get to engrave fun pieces like guns and the like that you in the states do. Over here the general population don't know what engravings look like, and they think that text is the only thing that can be engraved. There is little I can do to change that sadly.

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Hi Steinar, you hit the nail on the head with this concern. Nowadays everybody seems to expect everything in life to be fun. Personally I blame the modern education system where it seems the kids use computers at school and everything is one big game andmust be fun. They don't learn to work through the boring stuff; but this is another issue.

Unfortunately, with engraving there is a lot of donkey work and there are times when it is bloody boring! A lot of engravers on the forum are either enthusiasts or work on small pieces. Everything is exciting and, with small pieces, results are fairly quick. Now look at another scenario, you are working on a shotgun with game scenes and this takes 10 -12 weeks to work on. The game scenes are fine and the interest high but then come all the little, awkwardly shaped bits that need scrolling. This can be extremely boring and one has to develop the ability almost to work on auto pilot. An English fine scroll engraved gun is also fun whilst one is working on the nice flat surfaces but once again becomes tedious when working on the small bits. Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to put you off but it's best you are aware that not everything you engrave will be exciting when you turn professional.

That being said, if the stuff you cut has a quick turn around the financial rewards can outweigh the boredom. Occasionally I'll get a batch of 3 or more stock ovals to engrave with the clients initials. This can be a relief from a job that's taking a long time to do and, as Chris says, I can easily exceed $100/hour (it's a pity this doesn't happen all the time!).

As long as you go into your professional engraving career with your eyes open and realistic expectations there is no reason you can't succeed. And if you can prove yourself with other types of engraving on various objects there is no reason that your client base won't start to give you differing and, dare I say, more interesting projects. Okay, you mightn't make it as a gun engraver but what about custom knives? There's a huge collector base out there and the hourly rate compared to guns is much better and because the turn around is quicker you'll get less bored. But, as with most things, you'll have to prove yourself as an engraver and get yourself a name and this takes time.

I wish you good luck with your new venture. Go for it!

How many times have we talked ourselfs out of doing something because we were scared of not being successful,only to regret our decison when we get older?

Marcus, Thank you for your input on this topic. Very good advice - Fred

the only way to get ahead is try, and if you box yourself in at one shop. well thats not good . there are a lot of things that you can do , belt buckels hand bag tags and boot trim , walking canes anything that makes you money. the gold smith is just that . you find your own way and you can make it happen. ive been a custom jeweler for over 35 years and im still looking for that something no one else can do. find it good luck mark c