Question: draw plate
- Thread starter ETHELBERT
- Start date
D.M.
Member
2Cents. Anneal dead soft, taper the tip. Draw cold. Anneal every 3-5 draws. Coil the wire, flux vastly, heat it up - quench, pickle to wash out the flux.
Leonardo
Elite Cafe Member
Hi ethelbert,
First you should anneal the wire well.
After the wire is cold it is better to lubricate it a bit. A candle usually works well enough, and also some soap.
Then, file off one end of the wire until it pass through one of the holes (the first just small of the wire diameter) and long enough to have a good grip with the pliers.
You must pull the wire straight to you and perpendicular to the draw plate.
After passing the wire all the way out, it is better to anneal it again, lubricate, and so on.
Hope this helps a bit but I am sure some others will chime in with more great advice.
Best regards,
Leonardo.
First you should anneal the wire well.
After the wire is cold it is better to lubricate it a bit. A candle usually works well enough, and also some soap.
Then, file off one end of the wire until it pass through one of the holes (the first just small of the wire diameter) and long enough to have a good grip with the pliers.
You must pull the wire straight to you and perpendicular to the draw plate.
After passing the wire all the way out, it is better to anneal it again, lubricate, and so on.
Hope this helps a bit but I am sure some others will chime in with more great advice.
Best regards,
Leonardo.
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Use a lubricant-even just wax and it will draw better-draw straight away from plate steady-Fred
jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
The best lube I have found is bullet lube.
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I am going to disagree with some of you...
If you are drawing smaller wire I don't feel you need to anneal it. Maybe for .030 and above but for wire for smaller inlays I find annealing it makes it too soft and will break too easy. The draw plates are carbide and won't wear. I never have an issue drawing wire this way and rarely break it.
If you are drawing smaller wire I don't feel you need to anneal it. Maybe for .030 and above but for wire for smaller inlays I find annealing it makes it too soft and will break too easy. The draw plates are carbide and won't wear. I never have an issue drawing wire this way and rarely break it.
I'm with jerrywh on the lube.
Bullet case neck lube works great.
Bullet case neck lube works great.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
One of those wide "binder clips" with a piece of felt. Slit where the wire passes through. Soaked in your lubricant of choice. Clip it to the back of your drawplate at the hole being used.
I am curious as to why it would be necessary to "vastly flux" and pickle pure metals used in wire inlay? (Copper maybe? Though pickling alone should be sufficient.)
Brian Marshall
SJAS
Stockton, CA USA 95209
209-477-0550
instructor@jewelryartschool.com
http://jewelryartschool.com/
I am curious as to why it would be necessary to "vastly flux" and pickle pure metals used in wire inlay? (Copper maybe? Though pickling alone should be sufficient.)
Brian Marshall
SJAS
Stockton, CA USA 95209
209-477-0550
instructor@jewelryartschool.com
http://jewelryartschool.com/
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Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Rex, I would still consider .03 (.75mm) to be pretty thick wire for most applications. Sure, it can be drawn without annealing or drawn twice between annealing BUT it doesn't work down at the very small sizes.
Drawing wire into the .25mm range definitely requires thorough annealing AND lubricant.
When I fail to thoroughly anneal the wire properly, that's always the spot at which it breaks.
Most important is to clean the lubricant off the wire with acetone BEFORE annealing it again for the inlay/overlay. Sure, the torch will appear to burn it off but depending on the lube, there will be a residue which can hinder the gold's ability to bond to itself at a molecular level during punching.
I've used bowling alley wax, SPG black powder cartridge bullet lube .... anything "waxy" around the house works ..... even pure carnuba paste wax for cars.
Chris
Drawing wire into the .25mm range definitely requires thorough annealing AND lubricant.
When I fail to thoroughly anneal the wire properly, that's always the spot at which it breaks.
Most important is to clean the lubricant off the wire with acetone BEFORE annealing it again for the inlay/overlay. Sure, the torch will appear to burn it off but depending on the lube, there will be a residue which can hinder the gold's ability to bond to itself at a molecular level during punching.
I've used bowling alley wax, SPG black powder cartridge bullet lube .... anything "waxy" around the house works ..... even pure carnuba paste wax for cars.
Chris
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Chris, for me I found just the opposite. I make sure I have a nice taper and the smaller wire around .015 to .010 pulls better for me if I leave it alone. I find annealing it makes it too soft and will break too easy. When I do this I never skip any holes and pull it step by step. I haven't broken a wire in years. I can pull 10 feet of this through. I know others seem to have problems like this and tried my way and found it works. Maybe it depends on the person. Also I am only talking about 24k wire. Not sure how the others would work.
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
It probably has to do more with the draw plate than the person. Not all plates are created equal.
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
That could be. Mine is about 25 years old now. I bought a good one and was the best thing I did. Even a goof like me can pull wire. I have heard people with cheaper draw plates always having issues.
And... I will say the way I do it works for me but doesn't mean it will for others. My way may not be the right way, just another way.
And... I will say the way I do it works for me but doesn't mean it will for others. My way may not be the right way, just another way.
Leonardo
Elite Cafe Member
Yes, I'm with you Chris.
Those Chinese $10 draw plates definitely do not works!
The draw plate should be thick enough in a way to has a more progressive taper in each hole and also very well polished. The smoother the better, obviously.
Best regards,
Leonardo.
Those Chinese $10 draw plates definitely do not works!
The draw plate should be thick enough in a way to has a more progressive taper in each hole and also very well polished. The smoother the better, obviously.
Best regards,
Leonardo.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Round wooden toothpicks, a flexshaft and some diamond paste can do wonders for some of those old steel drawplates...
Thrumming works if you have no flexshaft.
Brian
Thrumming works if you have no flexshaft.
Brian
D.M.
Member
1. To reduce oxidation
2. To clean the flux and not let it get into the draw plate. Not everyone has a carbide plate.
And my apology for the post. Shouldn't open my mouth here.
RoycroftRon
Elite Cafe Member
If you plan on doing a lot of wire drawing the tungsten insert plates are a little more but I think worth it. Very rarely need any lubrication and pulls real smooth.
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I agree Leonardo .... and finding a tungsten carbide plate, with holes down to .25mm that is not made in China today, is not easy.
LOL!! Well there you have it Rex .... and all this time I was convinced that all you old guys were gurus because you could magically defy the laws of physics when in fact ... you've simply had a lot more time to collect better made tools that last forever. :big grin::big grin::big grin:
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Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
by the way ..... these are excellent ...
http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php?cat=977
The one's from Rio Grande are made in China. For $65 bucks they are good but not ideal if you need a small diameter.
http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php?cat=977
The one's from Rio Grande are made in China. For $65 bucks they are good but not ideal if you need a small diameter.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
DM,
You shouldn't get oxidation forming on pure gold and silver. Is that happening to you?
Yes, it happens on copper, but pickle by itself (assuming it's not worn out) should remove what remains?
What pickle are you using? Are you using it hot?
Otherwise, if it's been working for you - then keep doing it. Just seems like an extra step...
Also, consider the wire is getting mashed into the channel and then scraped and sanded flush - if you had a bit of discoloration, the exposed surface will be clean bare metal in the end.
Brian
You shouldn't get oxidation forming on pure gold and silver. Is that happening to you?
Yes, it happens on copper, but pickle by itself (assuming it's not worn out) should remove what remains?
What pickle are you using? Are you using it hot?
Otherwise, if it's been working for you - then keep doing it. Just seems like an extra step...
Also, consider the wire is getting mashed into the channel and then scraped and sanded flush - if you had a bit of discoloration, the exposed surface will be clean bare metal in the end.
Brian
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