Ya, but there will still be some of us around engraving those light sabers and lazer blasters.:big grin:
Ray
What makes a "Master"
- Thread starter bob easton
- Start date
Ya, but there will still be some of us around engraving those light sabers and lazer blasters.:big grin:
Ray
mitch
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2007
- Messages
- 2,636
Andrew- this troubles me...
"There are many regular members that produce outstanding work but have no desire to get the title of master and they could easily pass. That is not to say their work is inferior to a FEGA Master Engraver, it simply means they have no desire, for whatever reason, for the title so they never go for it."
You're basically conceding the fact that a Master designation by FEGA is, at least in large part, a procedural application process, rather than an independent recognition of excellence. I'm not sure what's to be done about it (and I'm not a member- long story, tho somewhat related to this discussion in part), but think perhaps there should be a concerted effort to bring those qualified members into the fold.
Here's where it stands now:
Client: "Why aren't you a FEGA Master?"
Engraver: "I could be but don't want to bother jumping thru the hoops."
C: "So it's not something they determine based solely on the quality of your work?"
E: "Nope- that's only part of it. More guys & gals could qualify but don't feel it carries sufficient professional weight to bother- in part because of the process."
C: "Oh- then I guess I won't give it much weight, either."
"There are many regular members that produce outstanding work but have no desire to get the title of master and they could easily pass. That is not to say their work is inferior to a FEGA Master Engraver, it simply means they have no desire, for whatever reason, for the title so they never go for it."
You're basically conceding the fact that a Master designation by FEGA is, at least in large part, a procedural application process, rather than an independent recognition of excellence. I'm not sure what's to be done about it (and I'm not a member- long story, tho somewhat related to this discussion in part), but think perhaps there should be a concerted effort to bring those qualified members into the fold.
Here's where it stands now:
Client: "Why aren't you a FEGA Master?"
Engraver: "I could be but don't want to bother jumping thru the hoops."
C: "So it's not something they determine based solely on the quality of your work?"
E: "Nope- that's only part of it. More guys & gals could qualify but don't feel it carries sufficient professional weight to bother- in part because of the process."
C: "Oh- then I guess I won't give it much weight, either."
Mitch, how many potential clients do you think even know of FEGA?
Not once has anyone asked for my credentials. My work is in front of them in my display.
I support FEGA 'cause engraving is engraving. I hope Jason's idea of a more inclusive organization takes off.
Kevin
Not once has anyone asked for my credentials. My work is in front of them in my display.
I support FEGA 'cause engraving is engraving. I hope Jason's idea of a more inclusive organization takes off.
Kevin
jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I think there is also a certain quality that makes a master. I think it is the compulsion to create beauty. I can say with a fair amount of certainty that masters and grand masters are never satisfied with their level of skill. They can always see their own mistakes and have a compulsion for perfection. It is not so much the desire to be the best as it is the desire to satisfy ones own standards. In a way it is a curse. But it's one of the things that makes life worth living and it keeps most of us out of trouble.
What makes a master?
WHAT MAKES A MASTER?
...in the u.s. a bit of hoop jumping, talent and 75 bucks there after for the rest of your life...miss a year...and you are
no longer entitled to the term "Master"...at least not without jumpin the hoops and payin up...AGAIN!
By the way just what is a “Grand Master†and who the hell thought that one up?
j.c.
WHAT MAKES A MASTER?
...in the u.s. a bit of hoop jumping, talent and 75 bucks there after for the rest of your life...miss a year...and you are
no longer entitled to the term "Master"...at least not without jumpin the hoops and payin up...AGAIN!
By the way just what is a “Grand Master†and who the hell thought that one up?
j.c.
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Interesting you should bring this up Jim .... The first question I was asked by a custom metalsmith and stockmaker was "Are you a member of FEGA?". One of my first priorities in putting together a high-end restoration project was finding an ACGG Master gunsmith to do the work. Yes it is expensive and takes a lot of time but when all is said and done, the work completed by a recognized senior craftsman of the guild adds VALUE to the finished piece. .... and people always ask: "Who did this or that" .... and if I don't answer with "Doug Turnbull" then it had better be someone just as good or even better.
Same goes for the jewelry trade. Let's say if you had Tiffany & Co. on your resume' ... that adds value to your work. It also has an impact on the clientele who follow you through your career.
-------------
I am disappointed that this discussion has evolved from an interesting compilation of opinions regarding the definition of "master" into something more along the lines of: "to be a FEGA master or not to be".
It's time to consider just how far along engraving in the good ol' US of A would have evolved over the last 30 years without such an organization. I have a distinct feeling that it wouldn't be very far and the few engravers out there that did achieve excellence would be taking their expertise with them to the grave. (I could list names here....
) For those names that I could list (including those who have posted their cheap shot comments in this thread .... you make yourselves irrelevant to "the art" in doing so. You also discount the contributions made by a number of European Masters who have contributed immensely in order to help the guild transfer knowledge to its' membership.Why is it that an interested student can travel to Italy, hire an interpreter and learn techniques at no charge while that same student here struggles to get the very same knowledge? I think that's why engraving in Gardonne Val Trompia has lasted and matured for 500 years but almost died out completely here ... until FEGA came along. If not for the generosity of the few FEGA Masters who not only share their work on this site, but share how they did it, this site wouldn't be worth the cheap Microsoft keyboard I'm typing on.
I am a full-time engraver however I am not a full-time gun engraver. In fact, it probably makes up less than 10 percent of my gross income. The techniques, styles and knowledge shared by other FEGA members, either through this forum, the newsletter or through direct contact, are utilized on almost everything I engrave including jewelry, knives and motorcycles. Most importantly, my business strategy to remain as diverse as possible has not been discounted by other members of the guild. They have been most supportive. That is unusual for a specialized guild but not unusual for a guild interested in promoting "the art" as whole.
I have heard it stated that "being a FEGA member only benefits the newbies". That is preposterous and even moreso obtuse. That statement may make sense to those who intend to take their knowledge to the grave with them ... or those who have a fear of the 1 out of 100 they help may become better then themselves. That is exactly the mentality that is working against the very premise that FEGA was founded on. Ken Hurst once told me that the more great work that gets into circulation, the greater demand for that quality of work will subsequently follow. He is right. It happens to each one of us when we put our best work out there and the phone rings because that customer told someone else. Old fashioned networking will never change but access to the information that helps to make great things happen gets better every day. .... and some where behind that propagation of information, there always seems to be a FEGA founding member.
Last edited:
Well said, Chris.
The greatest joy is to see someone you have maybe helped pick up the ball and run with it.
You sure have repaid that with honor those that helped you along the way.
Best.
The greatest joy is to see someone you have maybe helped pick up the ball and run with it.
You sure have repaid that with honor those that helped you along the way.
Best.
mitch
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2007
- Messages
- 2,636
Hi Chris-
I think the conversation started to focus on FEGA because this is an American blog and FEGA is the main (only?) organization in this country that makes any official designation of "Master Engraver" in our trade. To clarify my own remarks- and no one else's, I just think they could do a better job in the way that imprimatur is awarded, specifically to avoid the circumstance of clearly superior talents not being recognized as a Master, simply because they've been disinclined to go through the application process (for whatever reason- $, modesty, avoidance of even the minimal hassle involved, etc.). Of course it's reasonable to at least expect one to be a member of the organization, but to freely acknowledge there are those already within FEGA's ranks who would easily qualify as a Master- but aren't, cheapens its status for all involved. It might be a little awkward to just approach these hold-outs and tell them that barring their resolute refusal on religious grounds, "we're just gonna make you a Master and you'll like it, buster!", but until something gives, it's tough to consider a designation of Master from FEGA as valuable/honorable as it might otherwise be.
Oh well, I guess if I really cared i'd rejoin and try to change things...
I think the conversation started to focus on FEGA because this is an American blog and FEGA is the main (only?) organization in this country that makes any official designation of "Master Engraver" in our trade. To clarify my own remarks- and no one else's, I just think they could do a better job in the way that imprimatur is awarded, specifically to avoid the circumstance of clearly superior talents not being recognized as a Master, simply because they've been disinclined to go through the application process (for whatever reason- $, modesty, avoidance of even the minimal hassle involved, etc.). Of course it's reasonable to at least expect one to be a member of the organization, but to freely acknowledge there are those already within FEGA's ranks who would easily qualify as a Master- but aren't, cheapens its status for all involved. It might be a little awkward to just approach these hold-outs and tell them that barring their resolute refusal on religious grounds, "we're just gonna make you a Master and you'll like it, buster!", but until something gives, it's tough to consider a designation of Master from FEGA as valuable/honorable as it might otherwise be.
Oh well, I guess if I really cared i'd rejoin and try to change things...
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
And then you have a few (yes, currently living and working) and at one time - certified FEGA Master Engravers out there - who are now entitled to have "Former FEGA Master Engraver" printed on their cards and letterhead...
One would think that once one had taken the time and proven the skills necessary to attain “Master” status – that those skills would not just go away simply because someone became inactive or failed to pay yearly dues…
Having to jump through ALL of the hoops all over again if either of the above scenarios occurs, doesn’t accomplish much.
Conferring the title/status for life might make more sense? Odds are that if you do lesser quality work than you did to qualify – you’ll lose your following…
And, as far as I know – I have never seen FEGA bestow “Grand Master” status on anyone? (At least not yet…) It is a sales pitch at this point. We are talking about the USA - where these terms/titles are just beginning to be used.
Some of you may not know that only a few years back there was no “Master” designation in FEGA. After 20 some years that has recently been changed.
I am not beating up on FEGA – the organization IS the best we have, and it HAS done a huge service to the trade. (or “Art” if you prefer that term). I have been a member for 15+ years?, and I have personally gained immensely from my association with it. I recommend it on a daily basis to all engravers – whatever their specialty.
I have not sought the formal title myself for several reasons: I don’t engrave many guns, and I doubt I ever will. While I would not mind submitting a couple of pistols for examination and qualification, I just don’t have the time to be playing with what amounts to a practice plate that I don’t get paid for.
And finally, the requirement that you must have a FFL… Unless you are a full time gun engraver - what for? More time, paperwork and expenses? For the few I do – having the client pay for temporary transfers of ownerships whilst working on it is cheaper and less bother. So is purchasing a gun the customer wants, engraving it and then selling & transferring the finished product - if it turns out to be what he/she wanted.
This requirement alone, the “must have” FFL, keeps lots of very qualified engravers from acquiring FEGA “Master” status. A knife engraver can never be a FEGA Master, unless he gets a license to do something he doesn’t particularly want or need to do…
How can a European or any other foreign engraver - even if they exclusively engrave guns - get past this requirement? Far as I know, you have to have a presence in the USA to get the FFL. And what would the advantage be for them?
Brian
One would think that once one had taken the time and proven the skills necessary to attain “Master” status – that those skills would not just go away simply because someone became inactive or failed to pay yearly dues…
Having to jump through ALL of the hoops all over again if either of the above scenarios occurs, doesn’t accomplish much.
Conferring the title/status for life might make more sense? Odds are that if you do lesser quality work than you did to qualify – you’ll lose your following…
And, as far as I know – I have never seen FEGA bestow “Grand Master” status on anyone? (At least not yet…) It is a sales pitch at this point. We are talking about the USA - where these terms/titles are just beginning to be used.
Some of you may not know that only a few years back there was no “Master” designation in FEGA. After 20 some years that has recently been changed.
I am not beating up on FEGA – the organization IS the best we have, and it HAS done a huge service to the trade. (or “Art” if you prefer that term). I have been a member for 15+ years?, and I have personally gained immensely from my association with it. I recommend it on a daily basis to all engravers – whatever their specialty.
I have not sought the formal title myself for several reasons: I don’t engrave many guns, and I doubt I ever will. While I would not mind submitting a couple of pistols for examination and qualification, I just don’t have the time to be playing with what amounts to a practice plate that I don’t get paid for.
And finally, the requirement that you must have a FFL… Unless you are a full time gun engraver - what for? More time, paperwork and expenses? For the few I do – having the client pay for temporary transfers of ownerships whilst working on it is cheaper and less bother. So is purchasing a gun the customer wants, engraving it and then selling & transferring the finished product - if it turns out to be what he/she wanted.
This requirement alone, the “must have” FFL, keeps lots of very qualified engravers from acquiring FEGA “Master” status. A knife engraver can never be a FEGA Master, unless he gets a license to do something he doesn’t particularly want or need to do…
How can a European or any other foreign engraver - even if they exclusively engrave guns - get past this requirement? Far as I know, you have to have a presence in the USA to get the FFL. And what would the advantage be for them?
Brian
Last edited:
Gemsetterchris
Elite Cafe Member
All these fancy titles are ok & nice whatever trade your in, though there are hundreds of others just as proficient that don`t bother with it.
Your portfolio, trade references & word of mouth are the best proof of your workmanship.
Don`t forget those jewelers that have done outwork for big names like Garrards, Tiffanys ect that are anonymous as "workshoppers"
Your portfolio, trade references & word of mouth are the best proof of your workmanship.
Don`t forget those jewelers that have done outwork for big names like Garrards, Tiffanys ect that are anonymous as "workshoppers"
ddushane
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I agree totally w/Ray, I don't mind someone having the title but I've seen a great deal of people that use this title and others when it just doesn't fit and have seen several that could use it and don't. I have a filework video out in the market that has been out for several years, on the back in the description it says Fileworking Master Dwayne Dushane, I personally didn't put that on there and don't consider myself as a master, I just do what I love to do and hope others like and appreciate the work I put out, weather the knives I make, the filework I do, or the engraving I'm doing. My thoughts on the subj.
Dwayne
Thank you Brian for taking the time to at least give me an idea of what’s what.
No one else has seen fit to address two simple questions I put forth in my previous post.
Let me see if I have it straight.
In the U. S. engravers that have earned the title fega Master Engraver cannot continue to be fega Masters if they don’t pay.
The term “Grand Master†was invented by someone/entity in order to fill classes taught by engravers that use a title that does not exist.
I have been a card carryin, dues payin fega member and supporter
for over 18 years. Of that time (16 years) I have been a “Certified Professional and recently the title has been changed to “Master†– I was very proud of that fact until this year. For reasons that are my own, I was not going to renew this year. I was informed by the powers that be in no uncertain terms, that I would loose my “Master†status if my dues were not kept current.
The term “Former Fega Master Engraver†kinda has a ring to it.
j.c.
No one else has seen fit to address two simple questions I put forth in my previous post.
Let me see if I have it straight.
In the U. S. engravers that have earned the title fega Master Engraver cannot continue to be fega Masters if they don’t pay.
The term “Grand Master†was invented by someone/entity in order to fill classes taught by engravers that use a title that does not exist.
I have been a card carryin, dues payin fega member and supporter
for over 18 years. Of that time (16 years) I have been a “Certified Professional and recently the title has been changed to “Master†– I was very proud of that fact until this year. For reasons that are my own, I was not going to renew this year. I was informed by the powers that be in no uncertain terms, that I would loose my “Master†status if my dues were not kept current.
The term “Former Fega Master Engraver†kinda has a ring to it.
j.c.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Ummm... I'd guess that'd be right?
FEGA owns the title - when combined with their name & logo, and even though your skills are the same (or in your case light-years better than when you joined) - if you don't pay yer rent, ya can't use the title with FEGA attached to it...
The other term is advertising jargon - unless and until FEGA decides it should be a legitimate level of expertise.
Disclaimer: I'm not an officer of FEGA and these are only my conclusions based on what I see and hear.
Brian
FEGA owns the title - when combined with their name & logo, and even though your skills are the same (or in your case light-years better than when you joined) - if you don't pay yer rent, ya can't use the title with FEGA attached to it...
The other term is advertising jargon - unless and until FEGA decides it should be a legitimate level of expertise.
Disclaimer: I'm not an officer of FEGA and these are only my conclusions based on what I see and hear.
Brian
Last edited:
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
I've been away for couple of days and it's very interesting to see how this thread has developed.
Chris.........Yes. FEGA was named and then edited out while I was responding to that post. That is how all this changed track. But in saying that, it's not a problem. A good airing of views is always welcome and gives food for thought for all concerned. And as someone mentioned it is the only engraving guild in the USA with an accreditation/title or whatever of Master so its relevant. Besides, I would rather see all this be talked about openly instead of some of the more silly rumors I have heard whispered behind closed doors.
Mitch.........I would totally disagree with you. My comment only recognizes that there is other work out there that is masterful work both within and without of FEGA. The old saying that "you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink" comes to mind. FEGA has offered a process for a member to get the title FEGA Master Engraver. It is personal choice, nothing more. What you are suggesting is becoming a FEGA Master Engraver by acclimation/invitation and that is another thing entirely............maybe that will happen one day and maybe it won't. As I said, the system isn't perfect and no-one is suggesting that it is............but right now it is the only system and will evolve over time. I can assure you that all of these things get discussed regularly and sometimes it just takes time for an idea to come into its own. Change is not easy because sure as anything, change brings on its own set of problems that need time and careful evaluation to sort out before final decisions are made.
One thing I have noticed is that the FEGA Master Engravers are more than comfortable with the title. And so they should be. They encourage anyone to go for it and try to be as helpful as possible. They don't particularly elevate their work above anyone else's, in fact they a pretty humble about it, and they all have engravers whose work they look up to, and for, inspiration.....................the ones that seem to have a problem with it are those that don't have the master title and snipe from the edges but deem it beneath their dignity to sully their hands and spend the time getting it. That is their personal choice......... but I fail to see the need to deride or devalue those who see the qualification as personally important and worth having.
The thing to keep in mind about all of this is simple. The title originally started as FEGA Professional. Which is as about as exciting as grass growing which really didn't cut the mustard and was about as useful as a hole in the head because no-one knew what it was. So a couple of yeas ago (approx) it was changed to FEGA Master Engraver. Something that was immediately recognizable and carried far more credibility. It also reflected the quality of the work being carried out.
At the end of the day, FEGA is a democratic guild where the members get to vote on the issues of the day..............so majority rules. If we were to listen to the constant nay-sayers then nothing would get done and everything would be argued about till the second coming of Christ.
JC..........Pay your bills on time or when you are reminded ...............and there wouldn't be a problem. It was, and still is your choice.............you know the rules the same as everyone else...........So don't blame FEGA for your shortcomings. Just remember the full title is.............FEGA Master Engraver. Not master engraver or master...............but FEGA Master Engraver. It is not an international qualification like universities etc. It is a FEGA title so if you don't pay your fees like all the other members............then you are no longer entitled to use it.
Brian...........Former FEGA Master Engraver...........yeah, that works and would look great promoting your business
I can't really respond to the FFL thing as I'm not an American and don't know your laws........... but from what I understand is that you need it to engrave certain parts of guns. I will defer to far more knowledgeable people in that area. (Lets not get sidetracked on that one in this conversation as it is another thread all by itself with all the legal arguments.....there are lots of threads on that issue)
FEGA was started as a gun engraving Guild..........Firearms Engravers Guild of America.........the name gives you a hint. Maybe in a 100 years it'll be the Lightsabers Engravers Guild of America. Who would know.?
But.........FEGA also recognizes that the members engrave all sorts of canvasses, not just guns. This is reflected through the Engraver magazine and FEGA welcomes all the engraving arts into its fold. I would hope that FEGA will always be an evolving organization...............Hey, they have a foreign editor and member of the BOD so it can't be all bad and that's progress
Jason Marchiafava will not be able to satisfy everyone with his new guild, nor can FEGA. He will have his detractors after the honeymoon period............ the same as FEGA. That is the nature of the beast. In saying that I very sincerely wish him all the very best with the new Guild. There is always room for one more and he will do a good job of it. He has a big job ahead of him as any FEGA founding member can tell you.
All you can do is the very best on any given day and hopefully those that take on the workload in the future will improve upon it. It is always easy to criticize from a distance at something that already exists............it's a lot harder to roll your sleeves up, get involved and get the work done and work towards a common goal even if you don't always agree on the detail at the time............ah well.
Cheers
Andrew
PS. I was just about to post this when I read one of those really silly rumours I said about at the beginning..........
I'm not even going to bother responding to that one because it's just so stupid. All I can say is.........Man, you've got it bad and really need to stop listening to all that crap!! It just messes with your head .............Where on earth does all this nonsense originate from???? Unbelievable!!!
Chris.........Yes. FEGA was named and then edited out while I was responding to that post. That is how all this changed track. But in saying that, it's not a problem. A good airing of views is always welcome and gives food for thought for all concerned. And as someone mentioned it is the only engraving guild in the USA with an accreditation/title or whatever of Master so its relevant. Besides, I would rather see all this be talked about openly instead of some of the more silly rumors I have heard whispered behind closed doors.
Mitch.........I would totally disagree with you. My comment only recognizes that there is other work out there that is masterful work both within and without of FEGA. The old saying that "you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink" comes to mind. FEGA has offered a process for a member to get the title FEGA Master Engraver. It is personal choice, nothing more. What you are suggesting is becoming a FEGA Master Engraver by acclimation/invitation and that is another thing entirely............maybe that will happen one day and maybe it won't. As I said, the system isn't perfect and no-one is suggesting that it is............but right now it is the only system and will evolve over time. I can assure you that all of these things get discussed regularly and sometimes it just takes time for an idea to come into its own. Change is not easy because sure as anything, change brings on its own set of problems that need time and careful evaluation to sort out before final decisions are made.
One thing I have noticed is that the FEGA Master Engravers are more than comfortable with the title. And so they should be. They encourage anyone to go for it and try to be as helpful as possible. They don't particularly elevate their work above anyone else's, in fact they a pretty humble about it, and they all have engravers whose work they look up to, and for, inspiration.....................the ones that seem to have a problem with it are those that don't have the master title and snipe from the edges but deem it beneath their dignity to sully their hands and spend the time getting it. That is their personal choice......... but I fail to see the need to deride or devalue those who see the qualification as personally important and worth having.
The thing to keep in mind about all of this is simple. The title originally started as FEGA Professional. Which is as about as exciting as grass growing which really didn't cut the mustard and was about as useful as a hole in the head because no-one knew what it was. So a couple of yeas ago (approx) it was changed to FEGA Master Engraver. Something that was immediately recognizable and carried far more credibility. It also reflected the quality of the work being carried out.
At the end of the day, FEGA is a democratic guild where the members get to vote on the issues of the day..............so majority rules. If we were to listen to the constant nay-sayers then nothing would get done and everything would be argued about till the second coming of Christ.
JC..........Pay your bills on time or when you are reminded ...............and there wouldn't be a problem. It was, and still is your choice.............you know the rules the same as everyone else...........So don't blame FEGA for your shortcomings. Just remember the full title is.............FEGA Master Engraver. Not master engraver or master...............but FEGA Master Engraver. It is not an international qualification like universities etc. It is a FEGA title so if you don't pay your fees like all the other members............then you are no longer entitled to use it.
Brian...........Former FEGA Master Engraver...........yeah, that works and would look great promoting your business
I can't really respond to the FFL thing as I'm not an American and don't know your laws........... but from what I understand is that you need it to engrave certain parts of guns. I will defer to far more knowledgeable people in that area. (Lets not get sidetracked on that one in this conversation as it is another thread all by itself with all the legal arguments.....there are lots of threads on that issue)
FEGA was started as a gun engraving Guild..........Firearms Engravers Guild of America.........the name gives you a hint. Maybe in a 100 years it'll be the Lightsabers Engravers Guild of America. Who would know.?
But.........FEGA also recognizes that the members engrave all sorts of canvasses, not just guns. This is reflected through the Engraver magazine and FEGA welcomes all the engraving arts into its fold. I would hope that FEGA will always be an evolving organization...............Hey, they have a foreign editor and member of the BOD so it can't be all bad and that's progress
Jason Marchiafava will not be able to satisfy everyone with his new guild, nor can FEGA. He will have his detractors after the honeymoon period............ the same as FEGA. That is the nature of the beast. In saying that I very sincerely wish him all the very best with the new Guild. There is always room for one more and he will do a good job of it. He has a big job ahead of him as any FEGA founding member can tell you.
All you can do is the very best on any given day and hopefully those that take on the workload in the future will improve upon it. It is always easy to criticize from a distance at something that already exists............it's a lot harder to roll your sleeves up, get involved and get the work done and work towards a common goal even if you don't always agree on the detail at the time............ah well.
Cheers
Andrew
PS. I was just about to post this when I read one of those really silly rumours I said about at the beginning..........
I'm not even going to bother responding to that one because it's just so stupid. All I can say is.........Man, you've got it bad and really need to stop listening to all that crap!! It just messes with your head
.............Where on earth does all this nonsense originate from???? Unbelievable!!!James Miller
Member
May I cut in to this thread about Master Engravers. I am a Master Goldsmith, a title that I have not bought or aquired by joining a group, it is also not a marketing title for me either, although my book publisher insisted on titling my book with the term. I aquired the title Master when I trained my first apprentice. Over here in the UK we have The Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths, more commonly known as the Goldsmiths' Company,which is one of the Twelve Great Livery Companies of the City of London and received its first royal charter in 1327. I started as an apprentice goldsmith to my Master, after I had served my term of nearly six years apprenticeship I became a Freeman of the Goldsmiths Company and was a Journeyman goldsmith for the next two years. Then I was asked to train an apprentice and was then called a Master goldsmith. This was nothing to do with the quality of my work it is just a title from ancient history given to a time served craftsman who takes on the contact to train an apprentice.
It is sad that the term Master is now used as an advertising ploy rather than a fact of work history.
It is sad that the term Master is now used as an advertising ploy rather than a fact of work history.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
PS. I was just about to post this when I read one of those really silly rumours I said about at the beginning..........
Quote:
The other term is advertising jargon - unless and until FEGA decides it should be a legitimate level of expertise.
Disclaimer: I'm not an officer of FEGA and these are only my conclusions based on what I see and hear.
I'm not even going to bother responding to that one because it's just so stupid. All I can say is.........Man, you've got it bad and really need to stop listening to all that crap!! It just messes with your head .............Where on earth does all this nonsense originate from???? Unbelievable!!!
Whoa! Wait a minute here Andrew! Please enlighten me.
Where does “rumor” come into this? Am I wrong, and there IS indeed a recognized level of FEGA Master above the Masters called a “Grand Master” – or was the term specifically invented for commercial purposes? Where or what is this particular “rumor”?
Sure, I can see that there are differing levels of expertise within the group of FEGA Masters – that is obvious to anyone with eyes - but does FEGA actually divide Masters into further levels? Not yet -to my knowledge.
That was my point.
In the USA, FEGA is the only organization that offers the title of Master Engraver. It does not offer a level above that called Grand Master. Has nothing to do with any rumor - I believe it is fact...
Brian
Quote:
The other term is advertising jargon - unless and until FEGA decides it should be a legitimate level of expertise.
Disclaimer: I'm not an officer of FEGA and these are only my conclusions based on what I see and hear.
I'm not even going to bother responding to that one because it's just so stupid. All I can say is.........Man, you've got it bad and really need to stop listening to all that crap!! It just messes with your head .............Where on earth does all this nonsense originate from???? Unbelievable!!!
Whoa! Wait a minute here Andrew! Please enlighten me.
Where does “rumor” come into this? Am I wrong, and there IS indeed a recognized level of FEGA Master above the Masters called a “Grand Master” – or was the term specifically invented for commercial purposes? Where or what is this particular “rumor”?
Sure, I can see that there are differing levels of expertise within the group of FEGA Masters – that is obvious to anyone with eyes - but does FEGA actually divide Masters into further levels? Not yet -to my knowledge.
That was my point.
In the USA, FEGA is the only organization that offers the title of Master Engraver. It does not offer a level above that called Grand Master. Has nothing to do with any rumor - I believe it is fact...
Brian
Last edited:
Well Christopher,
here you are, once again,
in your face, no backing down, right in the middle of the excitement.
I was up in Fort Worth last weekeng, Shooting with a dear Friend, your name was brought up, and he, like me, appreciate you, and your skills.
Right, wrong, or in between,
we Love you Man.
Charlie
here you are, once again,
in your face, no backing down, right in the middle of the excitement.
I was up in Fort Worth last weekeng, Shooting with a dear Friend, your name was brought up, and he, like me, appreciate you, and your skills.
Right, wrong, or in between,
we Love you Man.
Charlie
Keith
Elite Cafe Member
Layne A, its just the number of posts that changes your status with the Cafe.
Last edited:
Andrew;
Thank you for your response. I admit I do have a few shortcomings; not paying my bills on time however is NOT one of them, and has nothing to do with my comments in this thread.
Read my post again.
I DID NOT know until this year and I doubt seriously any one else other than the “BOD†of the guild knew that if you want to take a year off for whatever reasons, that you have to jump through the hoops AGAIN to be “re-certified†for something an individual has been quite qualified to do for 16 years. That came as quite a surprise.
Let me see if I can make this clear,
The issue at hand is in having to re-qualify for master status… the paying or not paying the 75 bucks is not an issue.
I do hope that point has now gotten across.
Regarding my other two questions, which you seem to have
conveniently overlooked …What is a “Grand Master� and Who the hell thought that one up?
Maybe you would be so kind as to address those two questions as it has only been addressed according to you by “rumorâ€.
j.c.
Thank you for your response. I admit I do have a few shortcomings; not paying my bills on time however is NOT one of them, and has nothing to do with my comments in this thread.
Read my post again.
I DID NOT know until this year and I doubt seriously any one else other than the “BOD†of the guild knew that if you want to take a year off for whatever reasons, that you have to jump through the hoops AGAIN to be “re-certified†for something an individual has been quite qualified to do for 16 years. That came as quite a surprise.
Let me see if I can make this clear,
The issue at hand is in having to re-qualify for master status… the paying or not paying the 75 bucks is not an issue.
I do hope that point has now gotten across.
Regarding my other two questions, which you seem to have
conveniently overlooked …What is a “Grand Master� and Who the hell thought that one up?
Maybe you would be so kind as to address those two questions as it has only been addressed according to you by “rumorâ€.
j.c.
Sponsors
