Help, please: millgrain

Les Riddell

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can any of you tell me where i can get a millgrain roller that will last me more than one or two jobs without having to rebuild it?? or tell me what i might do to make them last longer. I am being very gentile with them using slow impact and light pressure with lots of oil. its a pain in the @*% to cut them down cut a grove re-drill and pin them for the life i get out of them. what am i missing??!!! The wheels last the trick but the rivets bend and the holes in the shaft split. rant! Rant! RANT!:mad:
 

Brian Marshall

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Hi Les,


First off, the milgrain tool you bought was not designed to be used in a pneumatic handpiece... (they were designed to be pushed/rolled by hand)

We use them that way these days - but the manufacturers probably have no clue that they need to beef them up. Most are made in Europe, I have both French and Swiss varieties...

Second, you will get longer life out of them by perhaps using a higher/lighter stroke than a slower/heavier stroke if you are using power assisted tools.

Third, you can get longer life out of them by keeping the pin/roller constantly lubricated. We dip them in oil saturated cotton every couple of minutes while using them.

Meanwhile, we only can hope that the secondary sellers like Frei, Gesswein, Rio, GRS, Contenti, and others will someday take the time to inform the manufacturers of what we are doing with their tools these days... I have told 3 of these retailers myself - every time I order them - over a 10 year period now. No results as of yet. :(



Brian Marshall
SJAS
Stockton, CA USA 95209
209-477-0550
instructor@jewelryartschool.com
 
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Sam

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It's my understanding that the best millgrain tools are made in France, by one family that's been making them for eons. They are pretty independent and didn't seem responsive to anything other than what they've been doing (so I'm told by Europeans who know and have been in contact with them). I'd like to see someone else manufacture them and hold tighter tolerances. Sometimes you get some outstanding wheels and other times they're just so-so. The darn things are so small that it must be very difficult to make them without watchmaking machinery.

Yep, keep 'em lubed and go easy.

~Sam
 

Les Riddell

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Cromwell New Zealand
ive been using them till they crap out and yes with plenty of lube. then cutting them down to about 45mm in length using a wax spiral saw to cut a new grove a .4mm ball bur to drill new holes and making rivets out of sewing pins. they usually last quite a bit longer but for the price i should be using them not altering them.
 

brad brown

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I'm a jeweler and use milgrain tools regularly. We have some heavy duty tools with a wheel that is about 1/4 inch in diameter. we use them for mostly straight heavy duty work as they don't turn so well. But they last a long time. I've never used them on steel. I'm sure we get them from Stuller or Gesswein but I'll check for sure tomorrow and post the stats.
 

brad brown

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gesswein has them. they call them large milgrain wheels. they are 6mm dia wheels with steel shanks and precision ground axles for long life. they have male and female versions. they are a little pricey around $60.
 

Sam

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I've tried the large ones and couldn't use them. Just too big for hand work and way too big under my microscope.
 

James Roettger

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I like the tip about sewing needle steel for new rivets. I have some broken ones saved and will try the tapered needles to refurbish them. Mine used to last for decades pushing by hand. With pnuematic tools they last about 2 years. I also stop and hammer the rivet shut when I see it spreading.
 

rod

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Ummm, the large milgrain wheels are normally used in lathes... on wedding bands.


And they were DESIGNED for that purpose.


Brian

I agree, Brian, These large beefier millgrains are larger pitch and are a form of knurling tool used in a metal lathe tool post with heavy knurling force applied
I have one and it does a pretty good job on silver rings used on my flutes.

Using the small ones with airpower, you are pounding that small axle in a way it was not designed for.

Rod
 

Mike Cirelli

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The small millgrain wheels are not made to use on steel. They are manufactured for use with soft precious metals. You might get away with using them on soft steel. The pneumatic tools really puts a lot of stress on the delicate construction. Using them on soft precious metals cushions them, steel will be like hitting the end with a hammer.
On steel I would suggest a beading tool It wil take much longer but you won't be going through millgrain tools.
 
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brad brown

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They are designed for much more force and strength. Seems ideal for use in a place where your current tool just isn't strong enough to get the job done. I mount mine in an old file handle and I can put a whole lot of force behind it. I use a lot of tools for things they were not designed for. I asume we all do. Another alternative would be when you have to rebuild the thing, use a stronger shaft such as a square graver blank (maybe to brittle) so the whole doesn't split. The sewing needle seems like a great axle already polished to reduce drag.
 

Les Riddell

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Cromwell New Zealand
to peen the ends of the needles i grind the end of an old beading tool harden it and then polish, fit it into a quick change holder and use the graver max just like Sam uses it to sculpt. i have never had a problem. must be done under magnification and trimmed properly though or you will get slack in the wheel or no movement.
 

Brian Marshall

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Interesting... are these actually sewing needles or straight pins you are using?

Been a long, long time since I did much hand sewing, but the the smallest harness needles we used back then were hard enough to snap or shatter if you bent them accidentally.

You could actually grind a graver out of the larger harness needles and go right to work with it, they were that hard.

So were the sewing needles in the kit I used to patch my Levis... they were from Germany.

Straight pins on the other hand would bend.

Maybe all the sewing needles nowadays are made China, Korea, or Pakistan? :(


Brian
 
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Les Riddell

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Oct 21, 2008
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Cromwell New Zealand
ive used both needles and pins with better results than the original rivets. as far as the needles go ive only ever used cheep ones from the kits you get at the $1 shop. yes i have had the odd one chip and shatter but only when ive cut the rivet to long. the temper might change a bit where i trim them with the cutoff disc. Ill make one up on monday and post photos of the steps i use.
 

James Roettger

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I've used Singer sewing needles for years to make wax carving tools. I heat them red hot over an alcohol lamp and forge them into different shapes, allowing the final cold hammering to reharden the metal. I then chuck them up in a pin vise to hold while working with. They seem like regular high carbon tool steel. If I were to use one for a rivet I would anneal it first over a flame and then expect it to harden back up just right as I rivet it shut.
 
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Kevin P.

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Good idea James, I've done the same with old dental probes but hadn't thought of sewing needles. Perfect for that really fine work.
Kevin P.
 

Brian Marshall

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Not exactly on subject of making axles for milgrain tools, but...

Once upon a time, back in the dark ages - you could get some really nice tri-cornered sailmakers needles. They came in various sizes.

As I recall, they were European, and they were also incredibly hard steel.

I made 3 or four of them into scrapers, since they already had the triangular profile.

Once sharpened they hold an edge for a long, long time. Got one with a blade length of about 1 1/2" - another about an inch, and another about 1/2".

All of them have come in real handy over the years...

Maybe ships chandler might know where to find them these days? Must be few people left who have to mend a sail while at sea?



Brian
 

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