Best way to hold gun stocks?

Tira · Feb 24, 2007

I picked up a job to engrave on the ovals that are set into the stocks of 2 guns. Each has 3 initials that will go in the oval in a block letter style.

What would be the best way to hold the stock so as not to marr the finish? I bought pads from Brownells that are supposed to help hold gun stocks, but they do not seem very soft even though they say they will not wreck the finish. The pads I bought were the Super-Hold Vise Jaw Pads Item# 852-000-001. These pads are fixed onto a 5" square aluminum plate, which I have been told will have to be cut to fit into a vise. Will this work with my engraving vise (magna block) or will I need another fixed vise? How would I alter these pads to fit into the vise?

Ultimately I'm looking for any info about how to hold the stocks so I can get the work done without hurting the guns. Whether or not these pads will be helpful is only secondary to finding a system that will work.

Thanks

rhenrichs · Feb 24, 2007

Tira,
I haven't tried it but I think I would start with a standard bar clamp and clamp the stock from the ends like a checkering vice does then clamp the whole works in your engravers ball vice. If things are moving around to sand bags or shotgun shot can be used for stability.

Roger Henrichs

FANCYGUN · Feb 24, 2007

Tira
At times I will also pad the object I'm engraving with a cotton cloth in addition to the so called non maring vice pads.

Jim-Iowa · Feb 24, 2007

Tira: The people who cut the checkering on gun stocks use what is called a Checkering Cradle.
It is a simple bar that runs the length of the stock with uprights with pivots mounts on the ends of the uprights(There are pictures in the Brownells Catalog) But a home made one will work just fine)and bolts to the stock in place of the butt plate and the front screws into the barrel channel. It is made so the stock can be pivoted around the center to allow flatter access to any surface.
I can't remeber if it was a headlight tub or what it was that you posted pictures of holding in your vice or something simular. But you had the concept down. It just needs to be long enough to accomadate the stock.
You could make one up and by making one arm adjustable in length it could be used for many irregular shapped items.
A google search on Checkering or Checkering Cradles should show many options....
This should be a cake walk for you!

Marcus Hunt · Feb 24, 2007

Checkering craddles are all very well but that is what they're designed for, not engraving. I dare say they're adaptable and as you already work on large items Tara, you shouldn't find much difficulty. For the rest of us however they are large, ungainly and need to be swung around in order to cut the initials. This is'nt what theyr'e designed to do.

I find by far the easiest way is to wrap the stock in a cloth and make sure there's extra padding around the 'hand' (grip). Then in your vise use either cork or leather pads between the cloth and the jaws. Gently tighten the vise until it starts to grip the 'hand' of the stock. Do not over tighten and be prepared to use your hand to support the work as quite often the stock will start to move in the vise if you haven't applied just the right amount of grip.

Oval engraving is a pain because the oval will never seem to be in the centre of rotation and you have to lean over the work quite often at odd angles. Using the above method I've never marked a gunstock yet.

Tira · Feb 24, 2007

What type of vises are you using for your methods?

Marcus - it seems you are speaking about an engraving vise given the rotation. Do you do this in a GRS engraving vise (or similar) or do you have a panavise or some other type of vise that rotates?

FancyGun - Can you use the pads with the engraving vise, or will I have to clamp them into a different type of vise? Did you cut the pads so they will work with your vise?

Thanks for all the info. I have 2 more guns to do after these first 2 so getting the method down will save me a lot of time and frustration.

FANCYGUN · Feb 24, 2007

Tira
i use my engraving vise for this. i do wish the jaws were a little deeper for jobs like this and as Marcus said. It is awkward with the oval. But what can you do.it goes with the territory. I have leather pads in my vise jaws and i hold them in place with tape wrapped around the jaws. Heel rubber like you can get from a shoemaker is also a good option
Hope that helps you out a bit
Marty

John B. · Feb 24, 2007

Tira.
The easy way to do this is to have the stock swing vertically.
This way, you sit "side saddle" and don't have to move out of the way as the stock swings.
To do this on the "cheap" here's the way.
Take a clear piece of 2x4 about 10 inches long.
Drill a hole through the flat side the dia. of a 3/4 inch pipe about 3 inches down from the end.
Between this hole and the end drill a hole through the middle of the "2 inch" side, a sliding fit for a 3/8" bolt.
Cut a slot from the top of the flat side above these holes and extend it about an inch below the pipe hole.
Put a pipe floor flange on the 5-6 inch 3/4" pipe nipple. Screw a block of wood to the floor flange.
Screw any small drill press vise to this wood block.
Put the pipe nipple through the hole in the flat siside of the 2x4.
Put a long 3/8" bolt through the other hole with large washers under the head and nut.
Tighten to close the slot on the pipe and adjust for the amount of swing and drag you want.
Put the bottom of the 2x4 into a regular machinists vise on a work bench.
As was suggested before, rig the stock between centers of a long alum. bar clamp.
They are cheap at Harbor Freight. Make some wood ends and cloth pad to hold the stock.
Now you can place the bar in the small drill press vise where you need it to be the center of rotation.
Sitting "side saddle" you can engrave in comfort.
This also works for long shotgun or rifle barrels or walking sticks.
I have a vise I made with proper bearings and drag adjustment to do this same thing.
When I get a little more skilled I will take a picture and post it.
But for now, this is a quick and dirty way to do the same thing.
Hope this is some help.
John B.

Tira, I will PM you my email and phone in case you have questions. John

Sam · Feb 24, 2007

Thanks for another great tip, John. I've added it to the Tips archive.

John B. · Feb 24, 2007

sam said:
Thanks for another great tip, John. I've added it to the Tips archive.

Thanks Sam.
I have to get over my "stage fright" with my camera and get some pictures made to post.
Sure enjoyed your thread on photography and which format to use to save, send and edit etc.
Another killer bit of information for a tech dummy.
John B.

John B. · Feb 24, 2007

Sam,
I forgot to mention the following.
For a shotgun or rifle barrel or anything like that I have a set of center points for the ends of the bar clamp.
That way, when cutting scroll or anything you can rotate the piece on two axis instead of chasing the design over the "hump."
This is not usually needed for initials in stock shields, however.
John B.

Sam · Feb 24, 2007

Thanks John. I updated the archive.

Sandy · Feb 25, 2007

Tara,
Take a look at the thread posted by Barry Hands titled "My New Palm Control Handpiece". It is on page 2 of the threads. It shows a holding fixture that might fit your needs.

Sandy

Tom Curran · Feb 25, 2007

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3961

This is what I use for a lot of my stockwork. The jaws swivel, to accomodate tapered work, and can be easily padded. the base swivels, too. You need one 5/8 hole thru the benchtop to use this vise.

david bain · Feb 25, 2007

Tira, visit this site http://americanlongrifles.com/ These guys make Long rifles,They might be able to give you some more information.

ED DELORGE · Feb 25, 2007

Hello Tira, I have been strugeling with that same question for quite a while. I just bought a magna block to help solve that problem. I have not done a monogram on a shotgun stock yet but I was going to find some foam rubber the type that is used for water ski flotation belt as padding. That should do the job.

Good luck

Ed DeLorge

KSnyder · Feb 26, 2007

Tira said:
I picked up a job to engrave on the ovals that are set into the stocks of 2 guns. Each has 3 initials that will go in the oval in a block letter style.

What would be the best way to hold the stock so as not to marr the finish? I bought pads from Brownells that are supposed to help hold gun stocks, but they do not seem very soft even though they say they will not wreck the finish. The pads I bought were the Super-Hold Vise Jaw Pads Item# 852-000-001. These pads are fixed onto a 5" square aluminum plate, which I have been told will have to be cut to fit into a vise. Will this work with my engraving vise (magna block) or will I need another fixed vise? How would I alter these pads to fit into the vise?

Ultimately I'm looking for any info about how to hold the stocks so I can get the work done without hurting the guns. Whether or not these pads will be helpful is only secondary to finding a system that will work.

Thanks

Tira, you didn't mention what type of guns these are but when working with longrifles / pistols and engraving the oval thumbpiece on the top of the wrist or side of the stock or wherever , the engraving should be done before the final finish is done.Usually this is the owners name, (makers name goes on the barrel typically).
Since you dont have that luxury, my favorite for holding the work is 8-9 oz cowhide and close cell foam or styrofoam from packing cartons of larger items. The latter 2 items spread the jaw pressure over a large area & greatly reduce the chance of a dip/dent etc. the leather should be next to the jaws & apply enough pressure just to make sure the work dont slip. The close cell foam (plastic type) can be cut or shaped & used over a few times.
this method ain't pretty but it works. I almost forgot to mention the versa-vise or just a machinists vise is better for holding something like a gun imho.
Btw, I got those jaw pads & they do work for smaller items but I wouldn't try to hold a gun with them.
good luck,
Kent

ED DELORGE · Feb 26, 2007

Hello Tira, and Kent, since I do have a need to do this type of work as I previously mentioned, I went to Acadamy sports next door and bought a kick board in the waters sports dept. some sort of styrafoam, kinda spungy. Cuts up easy on the band saw to the exact angle that I needed to hold a stock in my magna block.
Works good, I can crunch down on it with out maring the finish. What Kent mentioned about final finish over the oval is very important to consider as well. If the finish is a polyurathane that has been applied over the metal oval it could give you a major problem. If it is a boiled lenseed oil finish you most likely won't have a problem. Ask the stock maker first. If poly finish or thick varnish, you might want to pass on the job.

Let us know.

Ed

pilkguns · Feb 26, 2007

Ed brings up an excellant point, if it has polyeutherthane (sp) on it, I would add $250 or 300 for the extra pains you will have to go through matching or refinishing the stock. expensive since the engraving is probablly not going to cost near that much.

Best way to hold gun stocks?

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