Critique Request design layout

This is an early idea for a steel concho layout. I plan to engrave this in single point, granted ther are some ghost lines and such but i would like to hear some critiques and any help would be great. The concho will finish at three inches and the inner most circle i plan to inlay a fine silver line into. Thanks in advance , Mike

I have transfered your Bitmap design into a JPG as that is easyer to see

arnaud

For me at least, it would be easier if you indicated which scroll is over and which under where you have intersections.
Kevin

Mike,
try to make your design a little(alot)less busy.in this case less is more. If you were to engrave the concept that have,you couldn't read it from more than a foot away.Just too busy!!!

update

All right this is the updated version. Thanks Arnaud for changing that format, This one is jpeg. Yes Dave I got a little carried away with this it would be exceptionally busy in bright cut huh. Mike

This still looks like an extremely ornate concho, and therefore expensive in terms of time to cut it. However, lets talk about the design itself. Your background ratio is excellent and the leaves look good with concentric scrolls nearly all flowing correctly. The design looks real good except for the bottom scroll in the 4-6 O'clock area, that has some some flow issues. As it is drawn , the orgination point should be one of the outer scrolls, not the middle one. as it is, it starts in the center and flows to the right, and then left scroll(at 6:00) is flowing totally backwards.

Mr. Pilkington, Thank you this is exactly what I was looking for. I tried to pay particular attention to to the leaf/background ratio, so I am pleased that it is OK. I see what you mean(I think) about the six o'clock scroll perhaps if I brought it out from under the leaf mass on the scroll to the imediate left and rolled it toward the edge it would flow much better, and change the scroll coming off of the small double scroll at 4 o'clock. Thank you for taking the time to look and reply. Mike


This is what I came up with after more revision. I changed some scrolls and leaf structure to enhance the flow. hopefully I did it right. Comments welcome. Mike

Hi Mike

How are you planning on transferring the design?..........A computer transfer or by drawing directly onto the metal?

The reason I ask is that there are a few things that need attending to and if you use a computer transfer then you are going to have to draw them better or make adjustments on the metal.

Some of your scrolls are a bit out of whack and misshaped. The top right large scroll in particular.

You have also carried your leaf lines into the backbone of the scroll to much. This has the effect of separating the scroll from the leaf and by the time you cut and shade the Concho it will look like a whole lot of worms sitting on your metal. To fix this just rub those lines out where they connect with the scroll back bone…………when you are shading then you subtely bring the backbone and leaf together to look like an integrated unit as opposed to 2 separate design features.

The scrolls are not growing out of one another properly. If you look at the very top scroll (slightly to the left of centre) The backbone grows out of the scroll underneath……..but the inner line doesn’t…………the inner and outer line should both grow out of the parent scroll.

The scrolls that overlap will be another problem area. They overlap one another in such a way that creates one on top and the underneath scroll is blocked out.

The way to fix this is simple enough…………overlapping scrolls weave in and out of one another like a basket weave. Over, under, over, under. These small adjustments will carry the design a lot better.

You also have 2 scrolls facing one another just above centre of the design………this doesn’t look right………….I don’t know what the solution is there so you may want to fiddle about with that area.

Leaves: The bottom left, centre and right leaves are way out of proportion to all the others in the design. You can fix them by breaking them up quite a bit. In other words make them fold over and split them into 2-3 leaves.

I would suggest that you go back and redraw in again……….a pain in the backside I know but don't worry, it's just a part of the process we all go through ……………and start from scratch and redrawing the scroll backbones. Get them accurate……….then move onto the leaves. You will find other mistakes in the design as well that you can correct.

This will be a well worth while exercise for you to do……Don’t be impatient to cut as the cutting is the easy bit. Get the design right and everything else will flow better from that point. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that you can adjust all this as you go with the graver……you can’t as there is too much to adjust.

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew, Thank you for the thorough going over. I see what you mean, I beleive I will simplify this pattern but keep the elements that are working. The method I use to transfer is one that Lee Griffiths showed me.

I take clear tape and daub modeling clay on the surface to pick up the pencil and keep the tape from sticking so bad. Then I put some transfer wax on the metaland burnish the tape down over the materialto be cut, Lastly I spray with acrylic fixative to seal while i cut my main components(I use this method to layout bright cut as well as any thing I need to peirce by hand works great) . I'm not very handy with the computer so that method of tranfer is out of the question.

Your critique is exactly what I was looking for and I apreciate your time and opinion. Being this is an excersise mainly for practice in layout and cutting time is not an issue I want it right before I start. I am sure I can make enough of a mess with my graver without help from a pencil I will post my revisions when completed, Thanks again Mike

Hi Mike

No worries.........glad to help out

I'll have to try that transfer method as it sounds like a good one............ It just goes to show that we all learn something new every day!!

Simplifying the design would be a very good idea.

You may want to think about the starting point for all those scrolls as well.........................perhaps some flowers or somthing that all those scrolls can grow out of.

Play with different ideas and mix it around a bit................and if something dosn't look right............then it isn't!!! Let a little natural instinct guide you as well. Keep working the design and see what happens. Don't stop untill you are satisfied..........and don't be afraid to throw it away and start again. Some designs can be made to work and others can't. Sometimes we can get the design really quickly and other times it takes forever..............but each time you draw you learn something and improve your skills.

Cheers
Andrew

Hey Mike,
Glad to see you putting the great effort into this piece.One of the topics we covered at the work shop in OKC last week was in design and flow. I think that Andrew made a good point of it in his comments.Try to think about how you want someone to see what you are engraving and where it is going,( top to bottom or clockwise ect)with staring point that is slightly obvious and and ends with comparable or complimentary size scrolls.

keep it up,
Dave

Here is a revision, I'm not sure I made it any less complicated but I think I have opened it up somewhat and made it easier to see. The double scroll with the large scroll rolling out of it at 9 o'clock is my desired starting point, I feel like I have made it fairly more distinguished than the rest. Let me know what you think, I think I'm getting closer. Mike

Mike, I see you made a lot of progress on this design.
But as already mentioned in this tread, the scroll at 6 o clock, shouldn’t it face the other way?

arnaud

Hi Mike

That is better as the scrolls weave in and out of one another.

I'm presuming that your design is drawn actual size by the way you describe your transfer technique. It's very hard to draw at that size so you will have to make some adjustments as you go. Before you cut gently scribe/burnish any adjustments that you need.

So when you start cutting.................be very careful that you do not cut those "inner" scroll backbones the way you have drawn them.............in fact, don't cut tham at all. Let the leaf taper in and form the scroll backbone.

If you look carefully at your drawing and squint your eyes............the scrolls look like worms!!! and they will jump out at the viewer when cut and shaded. By letting the leaf form the inner backbone you will avoid this and the result will be far more pleasing.

Some of those leaves are getting a bit big so perhaps break them down into smaller leaves.

The leading edge of the leaves should taper into the scroll a bit better....likewise the tip of the leaf should point more to the head of the scroll............these are minor adjustments and you can do this once the transfer is made.

The heads of the scrolls may need an extra leaf in there as well.

Cheers
Andrew

Dave, You make a great point and I think I got a better flow on this last go round. I sure hope so because I made a few more adjustments and started cutting. It's comin' along pretty fair.

Andrew, As I mentioned to Dave, I made some adjustments and cut my leaves into my back bone to keep it consistent rather than cutting a hard line on the inside. That seems to be working thus far. I have only cut about half or maybe a little less of my outline on scrolls, leaves,etc.

Arnaud, Regarding the scroll at six O'clock. I have messed around with it in several positions and this is where it worked best for me. Thank you for your input though. I will post a picture when I get the peice completed, thanks again. Mike