Question: Need information on shotgun please

Steve Adams

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Jan 2, 2007
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Here are photos, I hope. Can anyone help provide a little information and guidance on this shotgun? This is a Winchester model 42 .410. It has been engraved and inlaid. There is gold mostly, and one platinum area. The initials L C are on the left side of the receiver and a pigeon is stamped on the under side of the magazine. From what I've been able to learn, the engraving was most likely done by the L C Smith company, however this only from a web search. L C seems to refer to this company in most cases. I have also found out that some of the engavers for this company were fairly well known, but how would you find out who exactly did the engraving?
Is this engraving considered factory engraving? Is there any possibility L C is an engraver or is L C Smith company definitely what L C stands for? What grade of engraving is this? I.e. Pigeon, Deluxe or whatever?
Any help would be appreciated. If these photos don't work, I'l try again.
 

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Roger Bleile

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As indicated on the FEGA forum, the model 42 was engraved by a freelance engraver named Larry Curry.

As concerns L.C.Smith engraving, They did not take in outside engraving work as far as I have ever heard. Smith's chief engraver was Albert E. Krause who worked for Smith from 1890 until 1949 when the plant closed. He lived to be 92 years old and died in 1962. Krause did all of the high grade L.C.Smith/Hunter Arms guns and had a staff of other engravers who engraved by patterns Krause created. Among the last of Krause's staff engravers was the late Charles H. Jarred who became known for having engraved the earliest Ruger Single Sixes at the direction of Bill Ruger.

There is nothing about the engraving on the 42 that would suggest the work of Krause or anyone trained by him and unless the gun was made before 1949 it could not have seen the inside of the L.C. Smith factory in Fulton, NY.

I hope this information has been helpful.

CRB
 

eisman

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Nov 15, 2008
Messages
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This is not "Factory" engraving, nor is is any "grade". It is a very nicely done custom upgrade. On closer inspection I would expect that the gun has been restocked (as the wood appears to be Claro) and the rib added.

Winchester never sent guns to other makers for engraving. They had their own.
 

Steve Adams

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Roger, It turns out you were right. Without question, Larry Curry did engrave the gun, and it was done about ten years ago. I have had it confirmed by both Larry (the engraver), and his son Jim who did the checkering. Now that I know the sellers story is not possible (and there is much more to the story), what should be done about this scoundrel? Any opinions out there? I don't think people should be getting away with misrepresentation like this.
The seller claims the gun was a presentation from Winchester to a famous person. The fact is, Larry Curry engraved the gun 15 to 16 years after this persons death.
 
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Glenn

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Nov 9, 2006
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Steve,
There are scoundrels out in our society preying on unsuspecting buyers at every turn.
I bought a knife from a guy who calls himself "edgedealer" who he claimed was engraved by Lynton Mckensie. That was the only reason I purchased the knife. I checked this guy out by another knife purveyor in Colorado who said what a great guy this seller was. As it turns out, two years passed with many communications with this guy and the confirming paper work proving Lynton engraved this knife never showed up. I finally confronted this scoundrel face to face at a knife show in Las Vegas. He said "oh I sent the paper work to you".
End of story. Now I can't get myself to trust any purveyors. We have to try hard not to let such people steal parts of our soul. After all it is just money!
 

eisman

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
45
Back more than 30 years ago Frank Pachmayr had one of the biggest custom gunsmithing shops in the USA. A fair part of the work done was upgrading American SxS shotguns to factory standards. Winchester 21's and Parkers especially, although they did some LC Smiths and A Fox's too.

Angelo Bee, Dick Boucher, and others did the engraving.

As far as I know Frank never sold these guns as "Factory" (just as custom to factory standards). Since then I've seen a couple for sale as true factory guns. The guys who did the work are gone, as are a lot of the original factory records, so it's hard to prove; but with guns like these selling for mid-five figures I'd be very careful.
 

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