Question: Are engraved items meant to be used

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jun 24, 2009

Well, in my opinion a jewel is only a jewel when worn.

I was wondering if any of those Masterâ€s engravings I see passing true, like knives the hunting guns etc. are not only made to cherish them, without ever using them where they where build for.

Like those beautiful folder knives I see passing true, I suppose when you use them as a pocket knife like I will use mine, the fine shading will be ruined after some time, even when it is hardened. Of course one can put it in an etui, or take care not to put some coins in the same pocket as the knife, but also that will make some scratches in the long term.

arnaud

Tom Curran · Jun 24, 2009

Knives,guns, jewelry can all be used. But the engraving will wear away, and will need to be freshened up now and then.

I think it is not uncommon for a high grade shotgun to get re-done every so many years, and the engraving gets re-cut at that time.

Some pieces go into collections and get handled very infrequently, thus preserving the engraving.

What is right? That is something that cannot be argued. I try to put the lid on that can of worms quickly.

Steve223 · Jun 24, 2009

I think its a personal choice....In my personal opinion a Bit or Knife or Gun or a pair of spurs look better after they have been used for a couple of years.
Steve

KCSteve · Jun 24, 2009

I think it also depends on the 'level' of the engraving - and the object.

Some of those fantastic knives we see come through here are used for their intended purpose. But that purpose is primarily "display as an art object".

Same with some of the guns.

I think it gets more interesting when you start to drop down out of those very high levels (for both the engraving and the base object). While a few of those might actually get used, I think we'd be surprised at how many of the ones very similar to them do get used.

Many of the guns Phil Coggan has shown us have rather delicate work on them and probably aren't intended for field use, some of them are cut so deep it looks like it would be hard to file off the work.

Les Riddell · Jun 24, 2009

as a goldsmith i can only hope that my items never come off. it is the best way to get more customers. as i become more experienced at engraving i can only hope that my customers like what i do for them enough to never want to put it down and in the process us it and show it off.

Roger Keagle · Jun 24, 2009

I love to "visit" older works of mind, and the ones I enjoy the most have been used...they seem to take on the persona of the owner...once I visited a friend that had the third knife I had ever made. many many years ago, he had used it every day and it glowed...engraving may be another thing, but most of what I have seen on older guns and the like get better with a bitr of age...I must admit I have seen some sad abuse...left in the shed to rot...but over all, most have been kept with pride of place...in some ways good engraving seems to help us take care of the nice things in our lives. Good to see items that have been handed over to the next generation, and treated with care. History, some things we do become a familys history...did a series of knives for a famlily, a man wanted them for his Grandsons, a request before he died...they were presented to them at his furneral...and they keep those to remember him...most never used but kept in a place of pride.

Roger Bleile · Jun 24, 2009

I think that KC Steve is correct in saying that the level of engraving may effect the objects potential for use.

Most engraved guns are meant to be used. When I was at the Engrave-In I displayed a lever action carbine that I engraved about 5 years ago and have used constantly in cowboy matches since. That gun has had thousands or rounds fired through it and it has some nicks on the top from ejected brass hitting it on the way down. Never the less it is still a gun that is admired by many people at the matches. I also displayed a revolver that I engraved about 25 years ago that I carried as a police officer. It is still in great condition and the engraving looks as new. Another revolver I displayed is a small snub nosed .38 that I engraved in flare cut scroll several years ago. I have carried it nearly every day since engraving it.

The common thing about these guns is that none of them are lavishly gold inlayed nor are there any bulino scenes or figures on them. When it comes to lavishly inlayed guns and knives or those with bulino work, I believe those are destined to be "safe queens." It is true however that skeet, trap, and sporting clays shooters often use shotguns that are fully engraved and often inlayed. While clay target guns take a beating mechanically from the thousands of rounds fired, they do not take a beating externally. My Beretta EELL sporting clays gun has fired thousands of rounds yet the metal is like new (the stock has a few handling dings however).

Art knives are another thing. As Steve indicated their purpose in life is to serve as an objet d'art that reposes in a velvet lined display case and is handled with the greatest care.

I am less familiar with hand engraved jewelry but it seems to me that all jewelry, regardless of value is meant to be worn and usually is.

CRB

ddushane · Jun 24, 2009

I've been wanting to make a folder for myself with solid 416SS handles and engrave it all over, I really liked the belt buckle Ron Smith showed that he engraved & used like a business card. That's what I'm wanting to do with the knife. Every time I build a pocket knife for myself I end up selling it to someone. Funny how a lot of people want what the knife maker carries for himself. I hope if I make one more personalized, I'll keep it. I also liked the hunter that Chris picked up cheap that had the soft spine on the blade that engraved along with the guard. I'm thinking of using 1095 or something like it for the blade so I can differentially heat treat it where the edge will be hard but have an area to engrave higher up on it like the H.H. Frank knives. I'm rambling, I'll shut up now

Dwayne

Marcus Hunt · Jun 25, 2009

I was taught to engrave a 'working tool' and yes, depending on use, they will eventually wear. But I would far rather something I engraved was used and enjoyed than stuck in a cabinet amongst hundreds of other guns in a collection. But that's just my take on the subject; others might feel differently.

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jun 25, 2009

Thank you all for your personal point of view on that.
About engravings that are rebuild after some time of use, I could have thought that myself, as it is not unusual with jewellery as well, as the setting become ruined after some time and so on.

If I understand it well, it means that the engraver has to take notice in the execution and design of an engraving, if it will be used or not. And if it will be used, some fine bulino scenes are better avoid or done a bit less fragile.

It is a bit like jewellery as well, as not all of them are made for daily use because of the design.

Probably every engraver start engraving items for daily use, and once he becomes a Master engraver, his art is put in "personal museums" of collectors.

arnaud

John Cleston · Jun 25, 2009

Yes sometimes

This is my remington folder, factory engraved for me by Loe Bala circa 1995. I carried it for years, I now carry it on special occasions.

I think the wear makes the engraving stand out better now than when new.

monk · Jun 25, 2009

i never engraved any item that was not intended for its' normal use. then again, i don't have the skill to produce some of the fantastic work one sees here on the forum. clearly, some of this work would be ruined if it saw any use in the field.

Weldon47 · Jun 25, 2009

In general, I think engraving should be in keeping with the intended use of the item. That being said, yes I believe engraved items are intended to be used and shown off....How else are we supposed to get new clients? Speaking of clients: they are the ones who underwrite what I do so...I usually do what they want in terms of decoration .....usually, but not always!
All kidding aside, the higher end artwork is better placed on finery that will be well cared for and leads a rather protected life. For "using" guns (and knives) you can get pretty opulent (look at Austrian/German stuff) and still have a very serviceable firearm...one that you don't have to worry about in the field. Gold inlay, especially the higher karat is so soft that much use/abuse will definitely wear it down to the point that it needs to be repointed (or it looks like @$#%).

My random thoughts,

WL

SamW · Jun 26, 2009

A few of my engravings are probably tucked safely away but I do know that several of my better pieces have been used on African Safari...and others are taken to the shooting range for target shooting. For my own working gun, lots of engraving with steel sculpted animals and electroless nickel plating. Scratch, mar and corrosion "proofed" to a great extent and no worries about damage. Do 'em and use 'em! TOS

Christopher Malouf · Jun 26, 2009

"Do 'em and use 'em" ..... I like that one Sam.

As I slowly find the time to transform the things I enjoy using into more expensive dust collectors, I find that I am in danger of becoming a dust collector as well.

I try to engrave everything (that I know will be used, or could be used), in such a way that it can be cleaned without any negative affects to the look of the work. With the exception of certain knives, that means not using paint in the background of guns or motorcycle parts .... sometimes relieving and dot punching the background rather than stippling. Also using a patina solution, like Black Max, on silver and gold jewelry rather than paint. It's common sense.

Stuff needs to look as good as it did going out the door for as long as possible.

eisman · Jun 26, 2009

I carry and use engraved knives and firearms. I've had them engraved because they're mine, and I intend to use them. Engraved items are harder to "refinish", but with reasonable care most guns and knives will outlast their owners.

Arnaud Van Tilburgh · Jun 27, 2009

My question is more than answered, thanks for sharing your opinions on this.

It seems we all like it when engraved items are used.
And it is like are the other "toys" people produce, if you want it to stay like new, you can't use it.

John, I like you pocketknife, I hope to finish mine soon.

arnaud

jimzim75 · Jun 27, 2009

Hi Arnaud,
I tend to keep track jewellery I've made because it come in for repair or touch ups depending on the design. There is a reason for engraving, besides the added value of the
art work. A deeply engraved ring will look better longer, than one that is just highly polished.

The metal alway has about three fazes on ring which show the wear pattern the most
and first.

The first faze is bright and shiny, the new look where everything is perfect. This is what
sells a ring. It the reflective flash that catches the eye and in some jewellery that matt
it's the clean lines and design.

Second faze is the dull down of the metal. This is where engraved item can look their best because it's easier to read the design. An engrave piece will also not show a nick
if it's deeply engraved. High polish ring don't always look that good at this point.

Third faze is well worn. On some jewellery this highly prized, like silver ring with turquoise.
Usually this is where it comes in to be repaired or refinished. It take longer for the engrave item to get to that point, but they eventually do. Hi point get rounded
and fine line look like they been smudged. The same look as on a coin that been
in circulation to long.

Since I maintain the jewellery I make as a service, I like to see it come back in so that
I can make changes to how I make originally so they last longer. I also charge for this.
Time is money.

Talk to ya later,
Jim

Phil Coggan · Jun 27, 2009

I still engrave guns that are used, having said that, if I have the opportunity I will explain to customers the pros & cons of which engraving is best suited with regards to wear, after that it's their dicision.

As for the guns that are there just as works of art, well it's just not practical to use them, does this mean that this work should'nt be carried out just because they are not used, I don't think so. These guns give the owners just as much pleasure when taking them from their cabinets etc. and just handleing and viewing them.
It also gives an engraver like myself the opportunity to produce work that we may not otherwise have the chance to do.

I count myself very lucky to be in the position in most cases where I have enough "Time" to spent on these guns to engrave just about whatever my mind can conjour up.

Phil

monk · Jun 28, 2009

phil: most, if not all your work looks as though it could survive most any form of abuse. notwithstanding the beauty and delicate appearance of your work, most of it looks to be so deeply sculpted, it could withstand several lifetimes of use in the field.

Question: Are engraved items meant to be used

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Elite Cafe Member

Elite Cafe Member

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Member

Elite Cafe Member

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Member

Moderator

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

:::Pledge Member:::

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Member

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Elite Cafe Member

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Moderator

Sponsors