Common errors in scroll design

Sam · Jun 7, 2009

Here are a couple of common errors in scroll design. As I mentioned in Steve's critique thread, care must be taken at the splits in the leaves. The top illustration shows splits in the leaves which do not follow the flow of the scroll, which I've marked in red. In other words, if you follow the line, it exits the scroll at an awkward angle as opposed to following the scroll's growth as in the illustration below.

Marked in blue are also some common errors in which the body of the leaf element is wide, gets progressively thinner, and then gets wide again. I've also corrected this in the bottom illustration.

These are very common errors which every scroll designer has made. Hopefully this will help you avoid them now that you know what to look for. / ~Sam

Tira · Jun 7, 2009

Sam, thanks for this post. It is amazing how many concepts can be taught in a simple drawing when it is presented as clearly as this.

pilkguns · Jun 7, 2009

Yep, what Tira said, great illustration Sam

Sam · Jun 7, 2009

Thanks, Scott and Tira.

I should mention that it all starts with a scroll backbone line with correct proportional spiral. Without that, nothing else matters as the greatest cuts and finest shading in the world can't save it.

Tom Curran · Jun 7, 2009

This seemingly simple illustration will help so many engravers get their scrolls to flow better. I learned something new today! Thanks, Tom

Weldon47 · Jun 7, 2009

Sam,

Great info!
What I believe we are looking for is a common point of origin: one that leads the eye or, that the eye follows & is uninterrupted in flow as the scroll begins and grows toward its termination. The mistakes you illustrate (which we all make or have made) make it very difficult to effectively shade the scroll.

My thoughts,

Weldon

JohnR · Jun 7, 2009

:thumbs up: A big Thank You Sam, for taking the time & effort to explain with great detail some of the basics of design. They really do help those of us that are struggling to draw better. Looking back on my sketches I am a big violator of these rules and now I will always remember to check them. Thanks again....JohnR

Steve223 · Jun 7, 2009

Sam thanks this is a big help to me...Its those little suttle things that are really hard for me to see.
Thanks again!
Steve

pilkguns · Jun 7, 2009

Weldon47 said:
What I believe we are looking for is a common point of origin:

Wow Weldon, in all my study and teaching of scroll design, I have never seen or heard it put that way, but that is exactly what we are trying to achieve.

Is this the Weldon Lister Theory of CPOO?

Weldon47 · Jun 7, 2009

Scott,

It could be just POO, you never know!!

WL

Sam · Jun 7, 2009

Point of origin is an excellent way to describe it, Weldon.

I'm glad this has helped those who are working hard at scroll design. There are many subtle little things that the untrained eye misses at first. Just like many things, once you know what to do and what to avoid, the job gets easier and the quality takes a nice jump.

~Sam

Sam · Jun 7, 2009

Continuing on...attempting to shade the top scroll is difficult as the shade lines will overlap the splits in the leaves. This really detracts from the beauty of the scroll. Also, attempting to follow poorly shaped elements with shade cuts results in ugly spots that interrupt the flow. In the bottom illustration I've shaded the corrected version, which gives me much more freedom for shading, and the scroll follows a natural growth.

~Sam

soj · Jun 7, 2009

Sam, thanks so much for posting this. Not that I won't mess this up again, but I have something to look at and shoot for.

Sam · Jun 7, 2009

You're more than welcome. Feel free to post your results.

Sam · Jun 7, 2009

Another thing to add is that when designing, you have to think ahead. In other words, if I draw a particular line, what affect will it have on shading later? It's sort of like shooting pool and setting up for your next shot as you're shooting. When I design, I visualize the shaded element as I draw it. If I can't get a clear picture of it then I'll try another shape. This way there are no surprises, and after the design is cut I pretty much know what I'm going to be doing shading-wise.

Many of my students make similar design errors as in the illustrations. I've made them too, and I still make them from time to time. I spend a lot of time drawing, erasing, and fine tuning before the chips start hitting the floor.

Roger Keagle · Jun 7, 2009

Gads Sam, wish I had seen this years ago ! Simple and direct instruction that really hits the point. Thanks for this Sam !

Sam · Jun 7, 2009

My pleasure, Roger!

John Cole · Jun 7, 2009

Sam, hope this question isn't off topic, but when you're shading do you start from the inside of the leaf or do you draw the longest shading line first and help to keep the highlight of the stem in an even width as you progress through the scroll? John C.

Mike Cirelli · Jun 7, 2009

Good info if I was the Chief Administrator and Benevolent Dictator

I would add this to the tips page.

Sam · Jun 8, 2009

John C: I think I understand your question. When I shade I normally start on the inside edge and work across the leaf. My shading cuts are cut from thin to thick, so I start at the top of the leaf and cut downward, getting progressively deeper and wider as I go.

On wider leaves I'll shade with a centerline first, then continue on each side of that centerline. The centerline becomes my guide and helps me keep all the other lines properly oriented. Again, I only do this on wider leaves, and it really helps with keeping the shading cuts correctly aligned.

Common errors in scroll design

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