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J Saville

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I am getting ready to try an inlay of a cowboy figure. Before I do it for real I want to try it in copper.

This is a small figure that would be very difficult to cut out of sheet metal. I saw a technique in the James Meeks book using gold wire for just such a project. My question is, will the same technique work with copper wire? The figure is only 5/8" X 3/8" in size.

I have a large spool of soft #18 wire I bought from RIO Grande Jewelry supply, as well as some soft sheet copper in 24 Ga and 30 Ga. which would be better to try?
 

KCSteve

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Yes - I've only done copper inlay so far (too cheap to buy gold yet ;)).

Prepare your cavity like you're doing a 'shaped' inlay. Your first wire can be across the pattern (along one edge) or all of the way around the outside - kind of depends on the shape as to which way works best.

Hammer it in but leave the edge toward the next wire a bit high so you can get a smooth weld to the next wire. Lay in your second wire, once again leaving the leading edge a bit high. After the third wire is in you can now go back and go over the join of the first and second wires to smooth it down and weld them together because the third wire will keep the second wire from moving away from the first one.

As you get toward the end you'll probably have to trim down little bits of wire to fit the remaining space. I was taught to do it by eye with a sharp knife blade and/or scissors.

With copper you have the slight problem of it work hardening fairly quickly but if you can do it in copper gold is much easier because it stays softer (or so I've been told).
 

John B.

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Hello J Saville,
Anything is possible but 18 Ga wire, .040 or 1 mm thick is too heavy for such a small wire constructed figure. Especially in copper.
You would be much better off with 24Ga or even 26 Ga, .020 or .016 thick.
Do you have a draw plate available?? If not see if a local jeweler will do it for you.
Be sure to fully re-anneal the wire after you reduce it's size.
Copper can be tough to inlay especially into a thin or soft background material.
Be sure to support and back of what you are inlaying into.
Best of luck with this project.
I will pull a little bit of your copper wire down to size if you can't find someone local.
PM me for a mail address.
 

J Saville

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Thanks Steve and John,

John, I do have a draw bar but it only goes down to 20 ga. We have a small jeweler in town I'll see if he can help. If not, I 'll take you up on your offer.

For now, I am working with a practice plate. Eventually I hope to put the inlay into the sideplate on a shotgun.

Thanks again.

John S.
 

TallGary

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John,

Before you try drawing the copper, I suggest getting a short length of stranded copper electrical wire and stripping it out. You are looking for the un-tinned -- copper looking conductors. A short piece of "zip" wire (two conductor light fixture wire) from the hardware store is one suggestion. If you need larger conductors, try 14 gauge or 16 gauge stranded wire. You will definitely need to clean the strands, and you may need to anneal before cleaning if the wire doesn't form well.

Good luck!
 

John B.

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Hi Gary,
Thank you for the information and imput.
I have plenty of pure copper wire, thank you.
The reason I offered to pull down a piece of JS's wire was so that he was sure that it was a piece from his own prefered supply and nothing odd ball.
For thin wire he could use stripped extension cord wire, as you say.
Myself, I prefer to use 12 or 14 Ga stripped Romex wire and pull it down to size.
Just habit, it's good soft, clean copper without a coating.
You could pick up a ton of short pieces around any construction site and it was free.
Not any more with the price of copper and plastic scrap.

Best wishes and thanks.
 

J Saville

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Thanks Guys,

I have a bunch of different wire around from various projects. I no longer think the wire is my problem.. I actually found some 28ga wire I bought for something els that I never did.

I think I may have bittten off more than I can chew on this one.

In the Meeks book it shows a dove tail cut to hold the wire in place, but when I try to make a cut like that, I just seem to make the cut wider. I am using an H10 graver from GRS which looks like a knife edge, to try to under cut, but it doesn't seem to do anything but make it wider.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

John S.
 

jerrywh

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A knife graver is probably the worst way to undercut a line for a metal inlay. The best way I have found it to come in from the side with a small chisel. There is a tutorial on this web site for doing gold inlay. I highly recomend it. Also I think Mike Dubber did a posting showing his tools for cross hatching. Those same chisels will work well for undercutting a line.
 

John B.

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John S,

I'm sure the inlay is worth your time and effort to learn.
There are many ways to do wire constructed inlay forms.
A Mr. Meeks method is a good one used by many fine engravers. But some find it difficult.
Sorry to hear you are having problems with it.
Here is another method you might care try.
Attached below is a page from my class handouts and follows the general methods used for many years in the FN/ Browning and other factories.
The chisel used to undercut the outside and also to raise the burs is shaped like a miniture flat screwdriver about .020 inches wide but with the bottom edge sharpened to a strong knife edge.
Please also see my reply to Rosso on his post "Need help on Wire Inlay" for the correct angle of attack for undercutting and raising the burrs.
Hope you find this method works for you and best of luck.


PS. I notice in the picture that the resizing for posting changed the image of Step #5 and this may have confused John S. and others. The pixels played tricks here and made jagged lines.
Step #5 should show the perimeter wire in place and the whole field covered in more or less straight wires running in the direction that best fit the area.
I will try to enlarge this Step #5 as a single image and post it below in the next hour or so.
Sorry about that! I'm not to Tech swift.
JB.
 

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J Saville

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John B.

Thanks again for all of your help. I did go back and look at your posts to Rosso, and I think I see what you mean for the tool used to do the undercutting. After seeing the explaination, I am beginning to remember how Rex showed us how to inlay a single wire at GRS, but that was a couple of years ago, and I really hadn't tried it since. I will also review the interview you mentioned as well as the site Jim B directed him to.

I can get a single wire inlay done, and if I just cut a piece of copper in a shape, I can inlay that, but Is it necessary to cut a channel and then under cut it for each wire? Or am I still missing something?

I may be a bit frustrated, but I don't plan to give up. Is there a way to get a printable version of that page?
Viewing it here doesn't give me a large enough view to be able to read it completely.

John S.
 

pilkguns

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A knife graver is probably the worst way to undercut a line for a metal inlay. The best way I have found it to come in from the side with a small chisel.


I believe you got this mixed up, it happens to me when typing in these little reply boxes too. A knife graver is the best way to undercut. It gives you 100% undercut, as opposed to leaving little gaps (which admittedly don't really matter in terms of holding the inlay), it is a much faster way to undercut, and it removes the base metal rather than displacing it, which means you don't have to spend extra time filing or stoning down the steel "bumps" all around the inlay.

there are some places so tiny that your only choice is to use a small chisel to undercut, I use modified carbide dental burs, but a knife graver is preferred for anywhere else.

Anotehr tip, make your knife gravers out of stronger steel than HS, something like cobalt or carbalt. remember they knife shape only has to be very short to perform an undercut. No since sharpening a long lenth of that hard metal when you only need less than 1/8 inch to undercut with .
 

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John S.
With the method I show above you only undercut the outline towards the outside
whether you create a cavity or not. A cavity is only required if you want a flush inlay.
This method can be used for flush inlays but is best for raised IMO.
I much prefer sheet for flush inlays.
The whole center field is closely covered with raised burrs or teeth.
The first wire is set to follow the outline and the other wires are laid in over the burr field and cut to fit from border to the inside edge of the perimeter wire.
These field wires have no groove under them, just many many teeth.
Try to lay in the longest wires possible, avoiding short pieces as much as you can.
When you have the whole area filled forge the wires together starting from the outside in towards the middle using a small brass punch.
Lightly sand or stone the top surface to remove the work hardened copper, fine silver or gold.
Then trim the outside edges and burnish all over the inlay to get a smooth bright surface.
Cut your details or lightly sculpt you inlay and you are good to go.
Hope this helps, just one of many methods. It's quick and with max economy of materials.
 

John B.

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NEW PICTURE STEP #5

Hope this works better. Ah, that's better.
The pixel gremlins didn't get me this time.
 

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J Saville

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John B.

Once again thank you.

I was missing something afterall. I thought I was supposed to be just laying in one wire at a time along side of each other starting on one edge and working my way over. Laying the wire around the edge first makes sense as it gives the inner wire something to brace against. As for the burrs I've become something of an expert at raising them (HAHA).

Thanks for the enlarged version I can see what you mean.

In the meantime I went back to the "How To" book for F.E.G.A. members and saw a way to transfer the relieved image to a sheet using a smoke pull, then cutting through the tape, which looked pretty easy.

Scott, thanks for the advice on the Knife edge. I was pretty sure I read it right in the Meeks book

I'll give both methods a try.


John S.
 

John B.

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John S.
I hope cutting through the tape method works for you.
I have never had any luck with it. The graver pushes the tape into blobs for me and hides the line.
A simple photocopy/laser print of the outline on paper, transfered using acetone works much better for me.
Hold the copy up to the window and make a pencil line cross on the back of it.
Make some witness marks on your workpiece to get it into the correct position, tape the edge and wipe the back with a little acetone dampened rag.
Let us know what works best for you though.
 
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